Correction:

And that performance bonus would be (approximately) equal to the total
FIN_PAYMENT_DISC discounts (and VAT amounts thereon) on invoices of that
period.

Should have been:

And that performance bonus would be (approximately) equal to the total
FIN_PAYMENT_DISC discounts (and VAT amounts thereon) that would have
otherwise be stated on invoices of that period.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Pierre Smits
*Proud* *contributor** of* Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org/> since
2008 (without privileges)
Proud contributor to the ASF since 2006

*Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*


On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 12:43 PM Pierre Smits <[email protected]> wrote:

> This whole controversy regarding FIN_PAYMENT_DISC and VAT corrections led
> to (in B2B) to framework agreement conditions between supplier and customer
> about being credited for good payment performance over time, meaning that
> if and when during a period (quarter, half-year, year) the customer would
> pay on time, the supplier would send a credit invoice for a performance
> bonus, with VAT calculation. And that performance bonus would be
> (approximately) equal to the total FIN_PAYMENT_DISC discounts (and VAT
> amounts thereon) on invoices of that period.
>
> Met vriendelijke groet,
>
> Pierre Smits
> *Proud* *contributor** of* Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org/> since
> 2008 (without privileges)
> Proud contributor to the ASF since 2006
>
> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 12:30 PM Pierre Smits <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ingo,
>>
>> First of all, FIN_PAYMENT_DISC,  or Skonto rabat, as it is called in
>> Germany/Austria, is in essence a credit mechanism.
>> It is not a discount on price. Therefor subject to different fiscal rules
>> (regarding VAT) than just goods/services invoicing (I don't know how it is
>> in Germany/Austria and other EU countries), but here in the Netherlands
>> credit transactions are VAT exempt).
>>
>> If the organisation is following a different methodology (i.e.
>> considering  FIN_PAYMENT_DISC not treating as VAT exempt), then he must
>> ensure that on the invoice (which states the terms) VAT amounts are stated
>> for both FIN_PAYMENT_TERM  and FIN_PAYMENT_DISC. Corrections after the fact
>> (the invoice, a legal/fiscal document for both  supplier and customer)
>> vis-a-vis VAT declarations is a path towards increased risk (fiscal audits,
>> etc.).
>>
>> Way back when I was working in retail (with both German suppliers and
>> Customers) responsible for accounting, we had the same issues over and over
>> again. Customers would subtract the discount, even after the deadline for
>> the term had passed, and assistants would register purchase invoices not
>> for the total invoice amount, but for the discounted amount (with VAT for
>> the full net amount) and those invoices would be paid also after the
>> discount term. We were regularly bombarded with overviews of unpaid parts
>> of invoices, and send the same out to our customers. Not only taking up a
>> lot of resources' time to follow up and correct, but also stressing the
>> relationship with customers and/or suppliers.
>>
>> We came up with a solution that alleviated both (time needed to follow
>> up, and stress reduction). We would take the VAT amount (regardless of the
>>  FIN_PAYMENT_DISC) stated on the invoice and register that in GL (for
>> fiscal reporting), but would write off the remainder of the invoice (after
>> payment of invoice with the FIN_PAYMENT_DISC deducted) and to a specific
>> GL account.
>>
>> You can do the same in a custom function on the invoice: have a trigger
>> visible to the appropriate user constrained through:
>>
>>    - Visible only when the  FIN_PAYMENT_DISC is associated with the
>>    invoice, and
>>    - the amount to write off is equal to the calculated FIN_PAYMENT_DISC
>>    amount
>>
>> And then have the function generating GL transaction and GL transaction
>> enttries for the write-off of the remainder of the invoice (in essence
>> marking the invoice as paid in full, for overviews, etc.) to the
>> appropriate GL accounts.
>>
>> Met vriendelijke groet,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>> *Proud* *contributor** of* Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org/> since
>> 2008 (without privileges)
>> Proud contributor to the ASF since 2006
>>
>> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 11:13 AM Ingo Wolfmayr <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Pierre, Hi Nicolas,
>>>
>>> just to be more precise:
>>>
>>> The order is completed and sent. The payment terms have been created via
>>> customer agreements and are shown on the invoice. The invoice have been
>>> sent.
>>>
>>> Not it's the customers turn. If he pays within the payment target, he
>>> can subtract the discount on the payment.
>>>
>>> On the bank account it shows € 98,- instead of € 100,- which is fine.
>>>
>>> The invoice needs a payment of 100% to be completed. Building the
>>> adjustment in vie manual accounting tansactions does solve the problem for
>>> the accounting, but not for the office staff working on the invoices.
>>>
>>> I guess I have to add the following functionallity:
>>> - adding this special invoice discount type after the invoice has been
>>> approved: this would enable the system to make the correct accounting
>>> transactions, add tax adjustments and the office staff will be able to
>>> complete the invoice + it can be easily used on reports.
>>>
>>> What do you think. Anything I missed?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Ingo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Pierre Smits <[email protected]>
>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Dezember 2021 09:55
>>> An: [email protected]
>>> Betreff: Re: Invoice - Discount
>>>
>>> Nicolas,
>>> Thanks for sharing your comments.
>>>
>>> Would you not agree that getting a payment for an order that hasn't been
>>> approved/processed (and the subsequent delivery not having taken place) and
>>> thus no invoice would be a bit atypical? An order adjustment (after the
>>> approval of the order) would then also be atypical...
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groet,
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>> *Proud* *contributor** of* Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org/>
>>> since
>>> 2008 (without privileges)
>>> Proud contributor to the ASF since 2006
>>>
>>> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 9:40 AM Pierre Smits <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Gutentag Ingo,
>>> >
>>> > This is one of the payment terms, and should be reflected in
>>> > agreement, and order before it winds up in an invoice.
>>> >
>>> > Related term records can be found in data definitions for entity
>>> > TermType, and most probably applied are:
>>> >
>>> >    - FIN_PAYMENT_TERM - for the standard
>>> >    - FIN_PAYMENT_DISC - for the discount condition
>>> >
>>> > As for your use case (which is very common in German / Austrian
>>> > business),
>>> >
>>> >    1. the invoice can't be altered after it has been approved and
>>> >    processed for posting to GL,
>>> >    2. the payment can't be altered after it has been received (as it
>>> also
>>> >    needs to align with what is reported on bank statement, etc),and
>>> processed
>>> >    for posting to GL
>>> >
>>> > Remains the outstanding balance of the invoice. With current
>>> > functionality, this needs to be manually adjusted in the GL
>>> > transaction regarding the payment association with the invoice.
>>> >
>>> > Met vriendelijke groet,
>>> >
>>> > Pierre Smits
>>> > *Proud* *contributor** of* Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org/>
>>> > since
>>> > 2008 (without privileges)
>>> > Proud contributor to the ASF since 2006
>>> >
>>> > *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Dec 3, 2021 at 8:49 AM Ingo Wolfmayr <[email protected]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi everybody,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I have an accounting question regarding discount on early payment.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> For example a customer has a payment target of 10 days. If he pays
>>> >> within those 10 days, he can subtract a discount of 2%.
>>> >>
>>> >> There is an invoice amount of € 100,- (the invoice is sent to the
>>> >> customer and therefore editing the invoice is disabled)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> The customer pays € 98,- A payment is created and assigned to the
>>> >> invoice. The invoice says € 2,- open.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> How do I get the discount into the system?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best regards,
>>> >> Inog
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Mag. (FH) Ingo Wolfmayr
>>> >>
>>> >> *Wolfix Solutions*
>>> >>
>>> >> Gänsgasse 14
>>> >>
>>> >> A-5282 Ranshofen
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Tel.: +43 (0) 664 2549626
>>> >>
>>> >> Web: https://www.wolfix.at
>>> >>
>>> >> Xing: https://www.xing.com/profile/Ingo_Wolfmayr/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> [image: emailsignatur]
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>

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