Thanks for that. Will check it out tomorrow. All the best.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 30, 2020, at 2:27 AM, Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> this test was on demo-next
> ordinary "presentation" room was used
> users were given only permission to use microphone
> 
> later on all microphones were turned ON and everything seems to work
> I have asked to re-test
> and try to increase the number of participants (too see how many connections 
> we can handle ...)
> 
> will provide more details as soon as I get them :)
> 
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 15:21, Denis Noctor <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Thanks Maxim... I would really love to know more about this. Is there anyone 
>> out there that can help with such a set up?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 30, 2020, at 2:17 AM, Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> AFAIK there was successful test with 11 users in audio-only room
>>> So multiple KMS servers can help ...
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 at 15:13, Denis Noctor <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Hi there guys. I was wondering if any further thought or considerations 
>>>> have been given to the whole numbers of user per room (vid cam / audio) 
>>>> and number of concurrent rooms per instance / server as it is seems to be 
>>>> one of the biggest issue / limitations regarding the platform. Any 
>>>> feedback would be much appreciated.
>>>> 
>>>> All the best,
>>>> Denis.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Denis Noctor <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Will check. I know Chrome uses a lot of resources and after your message 
>>>>> and some googling “chrome meeting uses lot of cpu”.... there are a lot of 
>>>>> links over the last year reporting this... for a number of different 
>>>>> browser based meeting platforms. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:43 PM, dww <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Check the CPU and network on at least one client device
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, 2020-11-25 at 12:32 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote:
>>>>>>> I didn’t as I was testing on the open meetings demo next website. 
>>>>>>> Probably in the logs if they have not been cleared. If it is possible 
>>>>>>> to view that info I could schedule and conduct another test.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 11:10 AM, dww <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Denis,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Did you check the CPU usage on the server and on at least one of the 
>>>>>>>> client devices when you got to 8 devices.?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 16:56 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Comment below....
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:13 PM dww <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> It seems to me that there are 2 separate stress points.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Maximum number of KMS streams (this can be addressed with 
>>>>>>>>>> clustering).
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Maximum number of users with video and audio that can showing 
>>>>>>>>>> live on the client browsers (This may require addressing layout on 
>>>>>>>>>> the browsers).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Tablets (Android based with Chrome) - all video pods were visible, 
>>>>>>>>> with the exception of the problems when I exceed 8. I did not test 
>>>>>>>>> iOS devices as mine cannot be update to the latest iOS version / 
>>>>>>>>> Safari.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> However, one of my students (Android phone) (who is in a small group 
>>>>>>>>> (5)) has been able to view everyone's cam with no problem... though I 
>>>>>>>>> would really only recommend a smartphone as a last resort.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Picture below:
>>>>>>>>> <tablet_view (2).JPG>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Also when you did your tests were smart phones and tablets allowing 
>>>>>>>>>> fewer users showing on the browser compared to laptops and desktops?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:43 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that Maxim.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I came across this...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.2/customize.html
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (scroll down to "Run three parallel Kurento media servers").
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> This appears to suggest that 3 KMS (audio, video and screesharing) 
>>>>>>>>>>> processes on one server. Maybe this could bring us one step further?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> All the best.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Denis
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 9:31 AM Maxim Solodovnik 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I just have fixed "refresh" button
>>>>>>>>>>>> So audio/video stream can be "refreshed" without page reload
>>>>>>>>>>>> both user-list and video-pod buttons are works according to my 
>>>>>>>>>>>> tests
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 at 17:08, Peter Dähn <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this might be because BBB uses 3+ KMS servers clustered
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I was unable to find direct link regarding it ...)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as far as I know, they use freeswitch for audio and kms just for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the video streams...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR Peter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 23.11.20 um 10:53 schrieb Denis Noctor:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot Maxim. I am happy to help in anyway for future 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 3:43 AM, Maxim Solodovnik 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for very detailed report Denis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of thoughts inline:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 at                 13:59, Denis Noctor 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My sincerest apologies for only getting back to you now. As I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had mentioned in my previous email that I was going through a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal issue and it took longer than I had anticipated to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get back in touch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, as mentioned before, I have been keeping up to date 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by reading all the emails in the forum over the last few 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weeks... and some direct emails also.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also apologize for the length of the email... so maybe you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should grab a coffee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As mentioned in my previous email, I set up 10 devices to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connect to Room 7 on the OM demo server - all of which where 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running the latest version of Chrome. 3 machines running 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 10, 1 running Windows 8, 4 running Windows 7, 2 Amazon 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fires (set up to run Chrome) with varying degrees of ram (2, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4, 8 and 12 gigs)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The results are as follows:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After logging in around 8.22pm (Mexico time), 12th November 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (OpenMeetings - Next, 5.1.0-SNAPSHOT, Revision: db7be4b, Build 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> date: 2020-11-09T14:57:23Z , I gradually added other devices 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the room. I got to 8. There was a little but of a time 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lapse... in the sense that I would move from one computer to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another... and could still see myself in one feed after I had 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move to another. It is important to note that 2 of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computers (older HP's) have a slight webcam issue... (I think 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a fauly cable... sometimes works sometimes doesn't - 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but audio/mic was working fine).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I added 2 the last two devices, things started to break 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down. The audio quality was clearly reduced... there was a lot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of crackling sounds... and some of the users video pods 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disappeared from some of the devices´screens.... or "empty" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video pods filled some screens... on some devices.... but were 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewable on others. Some users appeared to be disconnected, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though                   they could continue to view the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whiteboards... but had their audio and video disconnected 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (icons in orange)... when they tried to reconnect... they 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't... they clicked on the audio / vid icons but with no 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect... refreshing the screen sometimes seemed to correct 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While 8 users seemed to be able to connect okay... there was a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little bit of a time delay. As you can understand, I don't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have headphones and microphones for each and every computer... 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I spaced them around my house... when I talked... I could 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear my voice being repeated... (I am not referring to echo 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback).... there was a slight time delay by a couple of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seconds on some of the devices... moving from device to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> device. However, with just 5 users in a room, this was not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really an issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From time to time users experienced other users being 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disconnected or whereby they could see the "empty video pod" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the green border flashing on and off as someone spoke.... 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but again no audio or video being received.... but it was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to see the same users on other devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users would try to "refresh" the page... again only having 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access to 4 - 5 users on the page.... and not necessarily 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing the moderator. I finished testing around 9.50pm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some additional observations:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Based on some of the emails over the last few weeks. It 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appears to be that one OM instance can only deal with 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simultaneous rooms with 5 users approx in each room (using 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> audio and video)... and based on the above maybe a little 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more, but at a stretch. This appears to boil down to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limitations due to number Kurento / WebRTC connections.... 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you have mention somewhere in the range of 200 - 300 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a result I took a look at a few sites regarding 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BigBlueButton (BBB), as it also uses Kurento and WebRTC to get 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a general idea as to how many users can be in a room (with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camera and audio). However, a lot of digging had to be done as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many of the numbers that are used are about how many 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> participants can be in a room (without cam and mic) with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moderator (using cam and mic). Now I apologize for bringing up 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BBB in conversation, as I am not endorsing the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform....reminding me of Harry Potter, (Voldemort) "He who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall not be named" :) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, it might be worth investigating for ideas on how to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increase the number of cams / mics in an OM room.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can view this information here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://support.blindsidenetworks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042272991-How-many-users-can-I-have-in-a-BigBlueButton-session-at-one-time-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly, if you look at the following link it suggests that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the more number of concurrent users... the number of rooms 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be less (but again not taking into consideration cams and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mics) :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.bigbluebutton.org/support/faq.html#how-many-simultaneous-users-can-bigbluebutton-support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, regarding the limited number of users (with cam and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mic), BBB seems to have got arround this by having a window of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 cams that can be scrolled left or right. It appears 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moderators can still view up to 25 cams etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take a look at this: 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://support.blindsidenetworks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360049799851-September-16-2020-Webcam-viewing-and-recording-updates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this might be because BBB uses 3+ KMS servers clustered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I was unable to find direct link regarding it ...)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess we might contact BBB devs and ask for the help in KMS 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> configuration/clustering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OM Demo Next Server Specs:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Maxim, is it possible to share the specs of the demo server, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ram, cpu, etc, so that we can get a general idea as to what to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> benchmark against.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did share the specs before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dedicated server with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CPU: 8x Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU         950  @ 3.07GHz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RAM: 24GB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It hosting 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> om-demo: 8GB for java
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> om-next:   4GB for java
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These instances are using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - same KMS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - same Coturn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Separate databases at same MySql
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can increase java memory for demo-next if you are planning to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do tests one more time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the moment I am using AWS, t3a.large (8 gigs Ram , 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vCPUS). However, I am under the impression that even if I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upgrade my AWS server... I am not really going to see any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major improvements given the fact that I am still limited to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the number of users (with cam and mic) per room.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before this whole covid situation, my school had 10 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classrooms, class size average 10. I would like to be able to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a similar virtual set up... but based on all the info 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> above I would need 3 - 4 instances (using clustering, which I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have never done before) - but will still have a problem having 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 users (10 students / 1 moderator) in a room.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And while I know the following question (as an                 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   alternative) might be considered ridiculous - can a multiple 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of OM installations (with multiple KMS etc) be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conducted in one server - which more ram, cpu power etc?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be great if anyone out there has a successful 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clustering model that they could share - even to test across 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances. At present, I am using Ubuntu 18.04 on AWS as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> described above.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Either way it seems the main obstacle at the moment seems to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be how Kurento and WebRTC can be set up to overcome these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limitations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apologies once again for the length of this email and for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking so long to get back in touch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I've added a few screenshots regarding my test below (one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computer's time is 2 hours behind for some strange reason) :))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Denis.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        Virus-free. www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 12:26 AM Maxim Solodovnik 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 14:24, Denis Noctor 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there Maxim... I did a test with 8 computers and 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tablets last night (spread across 2 WiFis)... please don’t 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delete the logs on the OM demo server (next)...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just backup the logs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will come back to you all with some feedback and pics 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later tomorrow (if that’s okay)... however, for reference... 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I started the process in the public room #7...start time 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around 8.22pm (12th Nov) (México... 6 hrs behind) and end 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time 9.50pm... (if you want to check the logs) .... the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short version is that 8 users experienced relatively stable 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to hear the full version :))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will give you a more detailed feedback once I deal with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal issue. All the best, Denis.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2020, at 9:09 PM, Maxim Solodovnik 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll try to answer in one email :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 20:32, dww <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, Denis, I think your experiment                    
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>                    with multiple devices would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> valuable as then there is only one browser tab or window 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the OM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> room open as a guest on each device. Perhaps that will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yes, this would be better test (even if "fake" camera is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 08:24 -0500, dww wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Thanks, Denis,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Back on Oct. 17 Maxim provided the following Bash script 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > to be run on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the machine with a client side browser for the psuedo 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > guest users. (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Use another machine to create the room administratively 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > and send
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > invitations) This is a far simpler way to stress test 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the client side
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > browser.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Dennis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > i just have tried the following script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > started as `./run10.sh 5`
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > everything seems to work, but my CPU was 800% busy (all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > cores were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 100%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > busy)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > without `--use-fake-device-for-media-stream` parameter I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > had lots of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > permission errors due to camera was "captured" by first 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > browser
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > other have reported "Camera busy" error
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > _HASH_HERE_ - should be replaced with real hash (I have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > created
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > endless
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > invitation hash to the private conference room)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > the script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > ===============================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > #!/bin/bash
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > i=$1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > if [ -z "${i}" ]; then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >   i=30
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > fi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > let "i += 0"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > rm -rf /tmp/delme*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > while ((i--)); do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >   #echo "${i}"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >   mkdir /tmp/delme${i}
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >   #local conference
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >   chromium-browser --user-data-dir=/tmp/delme${i} 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > --disable-infobars
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > --no-default-browser-check --allow-insecure-localhost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > --use-fake-device-for-media-stream '
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > https://localhost:5443/openmeetings/hash?invitation=_HASH_HERE_&language=1'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > &
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 01:53 -0600, Denis Noctor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Hi there everyone, this seems to be the “elephant in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the room”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > discussion, while there has been a HUGE amount of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > development and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > progress in OM since March (thank you so much @Maxim) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > ... there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the whole issue of, for example, the number of users 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > per room...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > which seems to be about 5-6 (and maybe even to 7) when 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > pushed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > limit... with both audio and video being broadcasted 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > from all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > users... and, something else.. if there are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > simultaneous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > classes/sessions being held on the same server... will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > restrict
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > things even further? Is this an overall limitation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian did some AWS based testing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, if i'm not mistaken, the server with 4GB RAM was able 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to handle at least 3 rooms of 5 people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (5.1.0-SNAPSHOT should behave better than 5.0.1)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to increase the number of rooms you can use cluster
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to using a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > browser
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > based approach... or should we be taking approach?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is "The Limit"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KMS can handle only certain amount of multimedia connections
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> additionally there are other limits:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - bandwidth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - CPU
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - RAM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - open files (network socket is a file)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Limit" is something I'm not sure how to deal with (yet)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > It was my intention to test out the OM “demo servers” 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > over the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > weeks but will take today off and try to test 10 real 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > device
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > connections... with a combination of desktops, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > laptops, android
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > tablets and maybe even the odd iPhone or two.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple devices has issues with sound (outgoing)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm still investigating this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > My million dollar question is... prior to WebRTC and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Kurento... was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > it possible to have 5-10 users in a room with audio 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > and video
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > working
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > seamlessly in previous versions (for example, the old 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > “flash” setup
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > (which will be redundant after Christmas... Chrome etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > notifications)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > and if so, what has changed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes this was possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OM_before_5 was based on Red5 media server
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately it's open source version has no WebRTC support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > If there is anyone out there that has no problem with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > user numbers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > (using audio and vid)... exceeding a body of 7-10+, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > please                                       let us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > In the meantime, I’ll give you my feedback on my tests.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > I really appreciate                                    
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >    everything that has been done to date.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > On Nov 9, 2020, at 4:50 PM, dww 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Hello Maxim,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > A couple of weeks ago there was an email thread 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > about the 5 total
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > for one room, each user with video/microphone under 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Subject: "docker container clustering experiments 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > #1". 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For whatever reason you love to start new mail threads :))))
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > appears the bottleneck is the CPU usage on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > client machine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > browser.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > In a response to                                     
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >   Denis Noctor on a similar thread you mentioned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > try
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > "please check allowed amount of opened files for the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > user who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > starts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > OM/KMS/TURN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > increasing it might help"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Might this help with the issue we discussed? Where 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > approximately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > set the allowed amount of opened files?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KMS seems to drop connections when there is not enough files
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (network socket is a file)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can check the limit for current user using `ulimit -n` 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (`ulimit -a` to see all limits)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to check limit for `nobody` user `su nobody --shell 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /bin/bash --command "ulimit -n"`
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to increase the limit i'm changing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `/etc/security/limits.conf` file
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/openmeetings/openmeetings-docker/blob/48b72f4d0f38a0fab2021a0a2e4d6693c61c00be/scripts/om_euser.sh#L35
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (seems to work at Ubuntu)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Also are there any other things that can be tried to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > improve this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > scalability? Are there areas in the code that can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > examined to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > investigate how to improve this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KMS cluster would be ultimate solution, I guess
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Dennis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        Virus-free. www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Maxim
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Maxim

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