Hi Steve, Having just watched the SVJUG stream tonight on JavaFX 2.0 it sounds much like the same message we have heard over and over for the past years. More revamping and more tweaking. Basically, it would seem that the script part of JavaFX was alienating the larger number of Java programmers out there and now the tune has changed to keeping the original flock together instead of going after the designer target market. Even more it seems Swing is very 80s and a fresh boost of power is needed to keep Java on the client relevant.
That is all fine except that my project is backed by funders and we are close to getting our significant project done. I've glad the Apache Pivot RIA framework has already moved on from Swing and is available so we can move forward without delay. The infrastructure APIs that the JavaFX slides displayed tonight are all in Pivot now. After looking at Pivot I've realized that there is really nothing I'm missing from JavaFX (maybe video but that can come later) instead it has everything that JavaFX was always promising, right now. Plus it is totally open source and growing fast. As for the super duper Prism graphics engine, great, but its also not needed by 99 percent of applications that need to get built today. The demos of multiple video nodes shown at JavaOne are neat and good as a test but for the most part not relevant to anything but special effects and maybe movie shops. Its like a car, you need a good one to get around but you do not need a drag racer in 99 percent of traveling the streets of our modern cities. I can except having experienced Piccolo, then Scenario then JavaFX as part of a learning curve toward getting my requirements nailed down. My project is on solid ground now and moving along at a fast rate. It does not matter to me if I need to use straight Java or even a XML based DSL like Pivot's excellent BXML. What matters is that I can finally get something accomplished with technology and what matters the most is getting the the software tool, the very thing that is the solution, into the end users hands so they can be more creative, productive and joyous. While adapting Visage to work with Pivot is interesting it has nothing to do with my main goal. The main driver is what my software does for end users and not if there are a few more lines of code to type or not. My main responsibility is to get my excellent software accomplished and to avoid dead-ends and further distractions. No more tears, Thom On 2010-10-03, at 5:22 AM, Stephen Chin wrote: > Thom, > > Glad you didn't take my criticism of your first post negatively. :-) > > I can relate to the feeling of getting yanked around on the JavaFX stuff... > that is why I am pushing Oracle to open-source the technology. > > The integration work on Visage/Pivot is not as difficult as it sounds. We > already have a full compiler that emits working Java bytecode and can use > Pivot as a library. All that is needed is some proxy classes that will make > declarative object construction, binding, and all the Visage language > features work transparently. I will try to get a prototype together this > week and share it with you. > > Cheers, > --Steve > > On 10/2/2010 12:51 AM, Superstring Media wrote: >> >> Hi Steve, >> >> Yes, people say I have the gift of the pitch, when I believe in something I >> express it and the converse holds true as well. Seriously, I've been happy >> lately, my company was slowed down by the tides of JavaFX earlier and has an >> agenda to finish off our software sooner rather than later. >> >> It was "the night before christmas" (JavaOne 2010) while everything was a >> hush, when I discovered Pivot. So, in the midst of Oracle scattering the >> bonds and progress made by the JavaFX and other communities like JCP I was >> happy and wanted to share the fact that there are still positive things >> going on. Truthfully, the way JavaFX has been managed at the top for the >> past years is nothing short of a train wreck. The way things went at JavaOne >> is both good and bad news, it certainly does leave one shaking their head >> and a whole new meaning to Jimi's song "Purple Haze". >> >> Moving on, it looks like Visage is a positive step forward as well and I do >> wish it every success. At the moment our developers understand Java and XML >> and then later may have to make adjustments when porting to other platforms >> like tablets, a universal language or script would of course be ideal. I >> understand and appreciate the differences in syntax but would it not be a >> lot of trouble interfacing with toolkits like Pivot? Also, what if JavaFX >> never arrives? >> >> Apologies are not necessary we all want to find our best way forward, >> >> Thom >> >> >> On 2010-10-01, at 11:16 PM, Stephen Chin wrote: >> >>> Thom, >>> >>> I hope you don't take this the wrong way for pointing it out... but your >>> post came across very sales-ish (from the corporate-looking e-mail name to >>> the obvious project selling). >>> >>> That said I actually have a lot of respect for the Apache Pivot project and >>> I am reverse sales pitching you with an offer to collaborate on Visage. >>> <reverse-sales-pitch> >>> The same benefits that the JavaFX Script language (now Visage) had for >>> JavaFX can be applied to Apache Pivot as an alternative to the Apache Pivot >>> WTKX markup language. For example, rather than writing this: >>> <Window title="Hello WTKX!" maximized="true" >>> xmlns:wtkx="http://pivot.apache.org/wtkx"; >>> xmlns="org.apache.pivot.wtk"> >>> <content> >>> <Label text="Hello WTKX!" >>> styles="{font:'Arial bold 24', color:'#ff0000', >>> horizontalAlignment:'center', verticalAlignment:'center'}"/> >>> </content> >>> </Window> >>> >>> You could compile this: >>> Window { >>> title: "Hello WTKX!" >>> maximized: true >>> Label { >>> text: "Hello WTKX!" >>> styles: "{font:'Arial bold 24', color:'#ff0000', >>> horizontalAlignment:'center', verticalAlignment:'center'}" >>> } >>> } >>> (I kept the styles as CSS for consistency even though I consider CSS string >>> blobs a horrible anti-pattern) >>> >>> Some of the advantages of the latter include: >>> Concise syntax >>> Ability to intermix code with declaration (no script wrappers needed) >>> Static compilation with full type checking >>> Let me know if you are interested in working with us to be a supported >>> Visage compilation target. Here are our mailing lists. ;-) >>> http://groups.google.com/group/visage-users >>> http://groups.google.com/group/visage-dev >>> </reverse-sales-pitch> >>> >>> Apologies to anyone on the cc'ed lists that finds all this cross-project >>> selling intrusive or distracting (or just doesn't see the irony and humor >>> in all this). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> --Steve >>> >>> On 9/30/2010 3:36 PM, Superstring Media wrote: >>>> >>>> Exciting developments are happening at Apache Pivot where we just added >>>> SVG support this morning via SVGSalamander. Please feel welcome to have a >>>> peek at what Pivot has to offer as we are also excited about the >>>> possibilities of working with JavaFX 2.0 as it becomes available. >>>> >>>> http://pivot.apache.org/index.html >>>> http://apache-pivot-users.399431.n3.nabble.com/ >>>> http://apache-pivot-developers.417237.n3.nabble.com/ >>>> >>>> Thom >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2010-09-30, at 1:55 PM, Stephen Chin wrote: >>>> >>>>> In case you haven't caught the news from the presentation Dean and I did >>>>> last week at JavaOne, here is the summary: >>>>> >>>>> Our mission hasn't changed... we will continue to provide quality JavaFX >>>>> add-ons. >>>>> >>>>> Going forward we will migrate non-overlapping functionality to the new >>>>> Java APIs, and will continue to fill new gaps as they are identified. >>>>> >>>>> The reality is that we have nothing new to work with at this time, so >>>>> until Oracle releases a public SDK we are blocked. Hopefully they will >>>>> be able to do this early and often so we can develop in tandem with the >>>>> JavaFX 2.0 release. >>>>> >>>>> We are not going to do any significant development (other than bugfixes >>>>> and patch integration) for the current JFXtras 0.7 codeline. It simply >>>>> doesn't make sense to spend a lot of time writing JavaFX code that will >>>>> have to be ported in a few months. >>>>> >>>>> If you are itching to help out in the meantime, please jump on the new >>>>> Visage project to keep the JavaFX compiler alive: >>>>> http://steveonjava.com/accouncing-visage/ >>>>> http://visage-lang.org/ >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> -- >>>>> --Steve >>>>> blog: http://steveonjava.com/ >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> --Steve >>> blog: http://steveonjava.com/ >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "JFXtras Users" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/jfxtras-users?hl=en. > > -- > --Steve > blog: http://steveonjava.com/
