Thanks for this, BaTien. Points well taken. Not on point in this thread, however. More to the point on this thread is the following statement by Ted, and I quote:
<quote> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:48:39 +0100, Matthias Wessendorf wrote: >> >> Has Struts Shale no relationship to (Struts/Commons)-Chain? Technically, there only relationship between Struts and Shale is that they are both standards-based web application frameworks originated by Craig McClanahan :) I saw your post to the MyFaces list regarding Shale, Matthais, and it will be interesting to see how the MyFaces community responds. Given that Apache MyFaces now hosts generic JSF components, like JSF Tiles, an obvious question is whether Shale would be a better fit as a MyFaces subproject. -Ted. </quote> > > You are right on the target, man. As Ted has spoken on several places > that real developers write proposed codes to get feed back from others. > He/she then uses the codes to make a living. This is the greatest part > of open sources, relying on economic invisible hand. I like to go half > step further that as a technology entrepreneur (i am not a programmer > geek), i make my decision based on real deliverables that best meet > requirements. We are accountable for our own actions. > > Speaking out different opinions however is a very healthy first step > while waiting for real codes on the table and keep things in proper > perspective. Until we have real codes, we proceed with what is available. > > BaTien > DBGROUPS > > > > > > > Maybe I'm too trusting, but having observed Craig's comments on shale > > and JSF and the pieces of JSF that "Shale proposes to depend upon", > > and realizing that he's in a very select, choice position so far as > > perspectives are concerned, I'm inclined to trust the guy. ... > > especially when he keeps saying, "It'll be alright" (basically) and > > all the people that have something negative to say about Shale have to > > chip-in "... but I'm really not familiar with Faces". > > > > So far as Hans' comment goes. Whose word are you going to take? > > You've got a choice between Hans, who is certainly a sharp cookie, and > > Craig. Hans is a bright guy who has done his homework and written us > > some fine literature ... and Craig is out there setting the tone for > > JSF ... oh, wait, Craig pretty well set the tone for Struts too - he > > invented it! > > > > ... my money is on Craig ... :-) > > > > Peace ;-) > > > > Eddie > > > > P.S. - There's nothing wrong with discussion. Discussions generally > > have two sides though, and most of what I've heard about Shale here is > > pretty one-sided. My personal opinion is that it's time for folks to > > stop putting it down unless they've got a better idea and some code to > > put with it. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dakota Jack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:01 AM > > Subject: Re: JerichoFaces ? > > > > > >> On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:18:18 -0600, Joe Germuska <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I think a lot of people are making a mistake by making more out of > >>> Shale than it is. Shale is a proposal and a prototype. It is here > >>> now for people to use it and see what they thing of it. It is taking > >>> the opportunity to re-imagine Struts free of some of the backwards > >>> compatibility baggage that Struts 1.x has. > >> > >> > >> Shale is Java ServerFaces: "ViewController is an interface describing > >> a JavaBean that is associated with a JavaServer Faces view (typically > >> a JSP page)", cf. http://www.apache.org/~craigmcc/struts-shale/. Java > >> ServerFaces or Shale and Struts are different and inherently > >> incompatible visions, cf. the connection between Struts and JavaServer > >> Faces in Hans Bergsten's book on the same. Is pointing this out or > >> raising the issue a problem? > >> > >> The name "Struts" has great branding value as the advocates of Shale > >> and Java ServerFaces clearly see. If you want to take that name and > >> give it to something fundamentally and philosophically inconsistent, > >> be my guest. You are right. People can continue to work on Struts > >> after the name has been moved to an architecture which is inconsistent > >> with Struts. Things get a little confusing, perhaps, but that can be > >> done. > >> > >> But, saying that this is happening (1) is not to denigrate Shale or > >> Java ServerFaces; (2) has nothing to do with the ASF open source > >> process and what people can and cannot work on; (3) is not to support > >> or to decry the process. Heck, maybe this is not right. Seems to me > >> that discussion of what is happening and knowledge of the same is > >> legitimate, isn't it? People can do what they want. There still is > >> the need to be aware of what is happening in making such choices. No? > >> > >> Jack > >> > >> "You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep." > >> > >> ~Native Proverb~ > >> > >> "Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be > >> crows." > >> > >> ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~ > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > > > > > > --- > > avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. > > Virus Database (VPS): 0447-1, 11/19/2004 > > Tested on: 11/21/2004 3:04:21 AM > > avast! - copyright (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. > > http://www.avast.com > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > . > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Jack "You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep." ~Native Proverb~ "Each man is good in His sight. It is not necessary for eagles to be crows." ~Hunkesni (Sitting Bull), Hunkpapa Sioux~ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
