<snip> On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 06:50:13 -0500, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Meanwhile, another potentially great framework has come along: Shale. Like > Struts, Shale is MVC web framework, but it doesn't share any code or > architectural hallmarks with Struts 1.x. </ship>
As Rod Johnson (the brrains behind Spring) says: "Do not try to combine approaches that do not naturally fit. Struts is at its core concerned with request-driven web MVC, while JSF is focused on page-centric RAD with per event action listeners. Both approaches have merit, but trying to combine them does not add much value except for interim solutions when migrating from one to the other." Please don't respond to this email by saying that those who do can do anything they like. They can, of course, but that does not mean it makes much sense except for marketing purposes for JSF. (I personally think that this will just confuse people to no end and that before the tools that JSF is built to accommodate come out, those who are expected to use it and are taregeted to do so will have gone elsewhere. We'll see.) Struts-Shale is purely a market ploy for Sun's JSF and has nothing to do with Struts other than the Struts committers got "roped-a-doped". However, if the Struts community has had a failure of nerve in the marketplace of controller based MVC frameworks and no longer wishes to seriously compete in this area (ceding with Craig that other MVC frameworks are superior) but merely to take care of the old product, this probably does not matter. If Ted is abandoning Jericho, then the place to develop Struts-like frameworks is probably elsewhere, in my opinion. And, despite pressure the the contrary, I am entitled to my opinion. It will be interesting to see what happens down the road. As Rod Johnson also says: "Newer JSF early access releases seem to address everything that Struts does in terms of action and form handling, rendering Struts-JSF integration little use except for migration-path and marketing purposes." If Struts is not going to develop but rather is merely going to give its name to JSF and keep doing what it is doing in the 1.x series, abandoning any idea of "web-modernity" as in Jericho, then I am soon off to another (as Craig says) superior true MVC framework like Spring. I hope this does not create a rash of silly and personal responses as it usually does. I do have a serious question which I hope can be answered with out all the bile that is typical in this area. How is JSF or Shale MVC? Where is the C? I know that this is called a "View Controller", etc. But, that is just another 1984ish use of a word, isn't it? The point of MVC is that the architecture *separates* the M, the V and C, but in Shale or JSF there is only an M and a V, aren't there? -- "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back." "Heaven has changed. The Sky now goes all the way to our feet. ~Dakota Jack~ "This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
