On Fri, February 11, 2005 12:43 pm, Larry Meadors said: > Hmm, I only sent it twice (once for each of the emails I got from you). > > Odd.
Not a problem, probably just the typical list posting issues that pop up every so often. I should have thrown a smiley at the end of that first paragraph, I can across a bit crass when I was just being a bit sarcastic. Here's the one I owe you :) > OK, it was an alternative, but he also could just open his page with > <%, end it with %>, and use response.write() to send output. That too > would be an alternative, but I think every reputable JSP developer > would say it is not really a good way to develop web applications. No argument, people should in fact be advised against doing that. But, I'd bet you a five spot I could find at least a handful of JSP developers that don't even realize that can be done. I would argue that it's better to know it's possible than not. > Adamant? Umm, OK, I guess I must have mis-worded my email. I do not > think I said "never user scriptlets". I viewed the *CRAZY* *BAD* response as rather adamant. Being adamant about something in and of itself is not a bad thing, but to the extent that someone won't consider other options, it could be. If I ascribed too strong a stance to your reply, I apologize. > What I was trying to say was that they are *not* the first choice of > *any* web developer I know, and IMO, should not be the *first* thing > suggested to a new JSP developer. No argument there, it shouldn't be the first choice of anyone. Whether it should be first or not, I'm not as sure... I think I'd rather say "ok, here's one way to do it, and now here's a BETTER way that you should SEE makes the first way irrelevant" rather than "ok, here's the way to do it, and oh yeah, here's another way that everyone agrees is bad". I would think the first approach leads to less confusion for most people because it's a clear upward progression, and people I think tend to see those trends easier. > So, should we allow people to poke their eyes out to learn that it is > a bad idea? I think your asking the wrong question... If we tell someone that poking their eyes out is bad, and they can't understand why it's bad, should we stop them? Not the best comparison because we probably SHOULD stop them from poking their eyes out, but I'm sure you'd agree that <%=temp_%> isn't in the same league :) My point is, one would hope that by telling them they CAN poke their eyes out they will not have to experience it for themselves and will instead say "hey, that doesn't strike me as a good idea", and this is better than not telling them they can poke their eyes out in the first place. > Sometimes, I think it is our responsibility to provide guidance to new > developers. I agree, but guidance to me doesn't mean not telling them about an option. It means laying it all out on the table, telling them which option is generally accepted as being best and why, and let them decide for themselves. Just telling them "do A because everyone says it's a good idea" doesn't fly with me, even if A actually IS the best idea, based on concensus. > I partially agree. There are cases where scriptlets are required (I > cannot think of one right now, but I am sure they exist). I do *not* > agree that it is foolish to disount the option..it is a bad idea > unless absolutely required (which in the examples provided, it clearly > was not). I would not argue that it should not be the first option, we agree there. The way I took your original reply was that I shouldn't have even told him he could do it that way, and that's what I disagreed with, NOT your premise that it wasn't a good approach, which I *do* agree with. I was just laying out the options, hoping he came to the right conclusion on his own. It would have been perfectly fair for you to come in and say "option A is generally regarded as a bad idea and you shouldn't do it", I would have been totally OK with that. > Heheh, I am glad I did not offend you. I'm a married man. It takes FAR more than this to offend me :) > Larry -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
