I think i have a fundemental misunderstanding of ActionForms not having used them that much. So forget everything i said about ActionForms, i was wrong. I still dont like em partially cause im stubborn, but also because i dont like that you have to define you whole form in your struts config. Im gonna have alot of forms in my app but none of them are used in more than 1 screen. Seems like an implementation detail and not a configuration issue.
Whatever. The crux of this thread really can be summed up in "At what point does using session cease being a good practice and become a lazy man's shortcut." And i think woodchuck is 100% right, there is no correct answer. Small apps or lightly used apps can use the session for just about anything whereas larger apps or heavy hit apps really should not use it much at all. To answer some of woodchuks q's though, Im using struts to delegate control flow, access resource bundles and things like that. I started out using other struts logic and bean tags but went with jstl after reading thats what apache recommends now. The app will be fairly large, and entirely behind ssl. I dont really so much care about people viewing source for these forms, this data is not CC numbers or SSNs or anything. The hidden fields i will be sending back will account for probalby 1/20th of the entire pages' source code so there is no issue with repsonse time here. My main reason for staying away from the session here is because the app im writing is a startup site that has an unknown but potentially enormous user base who will be marketed to in period campains. I have no idea how many users will be on the site filling out these forms at any given time but we will be marketing it to thousands at any given time, so i need to prepare for huge load even though i may never see it. -----Original Message----- From: Woodchuck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 1:35 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Multi Step Forms hihi all, i think we have trade-offs to both ways of persistence here... if i may ask: for Brian: - if you are not using ActionForm objects (nor any Struts tags for that matter, if you're only using <c:out> and POHTML), then what features of Struts are you using? i'm just trying to understand the context better behind this discussion since the answer *always* depends on the context. is your web app really simple? very little business rules validation, and no need to i18n? are you not worried about having all those hidden values being seen (by viewing html source)? what about performance? adding more information that needs to be sent across the network will not necessarily affect latency, but it *will* affect response time, and this is what the users experience will be based on for any web apps. for Rick: - if and when your web app does experience OutOfMemoryExceptions due to sheer volume (of users/sessions), then what can you do to fix this? i also worry about this possible eventuality and try to use session judiciously, but even then in theory, it is still going against finite memory resources. do you just keep maximizing the server memory, and/or keep adding servers (clustering/load balancing)? and when you talk about state persistence, the issues of concurrency follows closely as well although it is a problem independent from the immediate discussion... i only bring it up because imo it is a risk factor that should be considered when thinking about state persisting strategy. woodchuck --- Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But that's my point, if you server is going to crash because of bean > stored in Session scope that is holding simple properties, than there > > are some serious issues with your server set up. What's ironic is I > bet > you'll end up with a slower performance (at least from the user's > perspective) doing the other tricks you'll need to do in order to get > > all of this to work using only the Request. > > I totally agree in not use the Session for unnecessary operations > that > do you not need persist, but for what you are doing is the exact > reason > you have the Session. Do you think shopping carts persist all their > contents into hidden properties on each page as the user browses a > shopping site? __________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
