Hi, I jump in the middle of this debate (religion war ?). I dont want to add my own opinion... who care ? But as many pragmatic developper we need to follow the requirements of our customers, sometimes .Net, java (struts, jsf,...), VB... So one of our big challenge is capability to maintain ( not a migration !!!) the code of some libraries in both plattform. I should be interrested to have some advice (design, tools,...), experience
Regards, Michel Van Asten Projections sa -----Message d'origine----- De : Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : mardi 5 juillet 2005 22:24 À : Struts Users Mailing List Objet : Re: Struts vs .NET??? John Henry Xu wrote the following on 7/2/2005 6:43 AM: > Is writting > lots of getters and setters manually the most productive way in real > projects? You keep coming back to this getters and setters thing:) Like I said any editor (even vim:) can create getters and setters. I take it you think Struts is all about getters and setters? Seriously, don't take offense to this, but I'm wondering how many Struts applications you actually coded? I usually have several ActionForms and some beans which do have get/set methods. The beans (value objects/dto's) I'd have even if I was coding an application in Swing/.NET or whatever. So your main thrust here seems to be about ActionForms and get/set methods? Honestly that's such a small part of the whole process I still can't believe you are harping on it. I think we can terminate listening to your posts because of this statement: "My experience was Struts have more codes and configuration files than straight forward JSP+Javabean+taglibs approach that was done before." This tells me either: A) You haven't used Struts much OR C) The applications you write using your home-grown approach have to be quite sucky and would be a royal pain to maintain and refactor as requirements change. I make this claim because Struts (and other web application frameworks) provide ALREADY WRITTEN CODE in jars that you'd have to write YOURSELF if you didn't use a framework. So, to quote you, - more lines mean more time and a waste of money. So under your own logic you are costing your company a TON of money and you might want to think about adopting some web framework for your developers to start using. I can get into all the little things web frameworks provide, but here are some simple questions I have for you that maybe you can answer from 'your experience'... Where do your forms submit to? How do you handle/configure where the page forwards to after the request is sent? When you need to change the flow of the application (what page forwards to where) how do you make this change? How do you handle server side validation problems and display messages to the user about these server side problems? If you handled ANY of the above than I will GUARANTEE you that I can take your SAME application, and not change any of your business logic, and end up with code that is CLEANER and, most importantly from your perspective, written in LESS lines. I truly truly would love for you to zip up a sample of one of your web applications and let us check out this 'smaller' code base. Please do it. Pretty please. I'm sorry if I sound a bit hostile, but I've had this 'argument' with so many people over the years. They say stuff like "I don't see why use (insert your favorite web framework), you just complicate things and end up with more code and configuration files." Then what happens is I see their code and see all the wasted stuff they are doing that a web framework provides 'out of the box.' I think the problem is these people don't see how the framework saves time because they haven't worked with. Do these frameworks have problems? Yes, they do. I'm not a fan of ActionForms myself, but I do see their place in the Struts world. JSF seems to have gotten rid of them. Some frameworks the learning curve looks too steep for me to invest the time in it (Spring's UI framework seemed to be one of these back in the day when I first considered it... the docs sucked). Others out there seem good, but I'm just too comfortable with Struts to make the change. I can whip out a quality web app using Struts and iBATIS in practically no time at all. Granted, yes, Struts has a learning curve, but once you learn it you can apply it to any app or other apps that are coded with it. Conversely, if we take your "JSP+Javabean+taglibs only" application it will be much more difficult for a new person to the application to understand (again, you are all about saving money so I'm not sure how you can't see how your home-grown approach will cost you more in the long run). -- Rick --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
