Ted, I think you hit the nail right on the head - very observant. The resistance we are seeing now in the struts community to both JSF and Shale is EXACTLY the same thing we saw with ASP and ASP.NET <http://ASP.NET>.
In many cases, the same arguments are being made, just with different product names. Struts is not going to last forever. As developers we should be the first to recognize that *nothing* we create lasts forever. So the question becomes: Where do we go from here? Do we get going with JSF? Do we jump on the .NET bandwagon? Do we run off to create our own "better" struts? ...or do we stay with struts 1.x, and drift into obsolesence? Of the four options, the last one sounds less attractive every day. It seems you can't swing a broken mouse without hitting another web framework, so apparently, lots of people are opting for #3. I have better things to do with my time than getting involved with a dead end. I have looked into #2, and to be honest, it is not horrible, but it's no struts either (php, maybe). So, I'll take door #1. ;-) Larry On 7/23/05, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 7/22/05, Michael Jouravlev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was thinking about should I post a quote from an article which > > discusses a rival project? Then I thought, whatever. They already got > > Shale. > > Spring isn't a rival. Spring and Struts are good friends. The Spring > IOC container works great for the model layer of a Struts > applications. You can even use Spring from within a Struts Action. I > haven't tried it, but I'm sure you could even load the Struts > configuration from Spring, and have one IOC solution, end to end. > > Meanwhile, Spring MVC is very Struts-like, which, considering the high > programming standards of the Spring tream, I take as a great > complement :) > > > > "Overall, J2EE Web frameworks are in a state of flux, having no clear > > technology leader. Struts is the most popular Web framework, but its > > chief architect and one of its lead developers have abandoned it. The > > proclaimed successor specification, JSF (Java Server Faces), has yet > > to win the hearts and minds of Struts developers. In the meantime, > > other frameworks are gaining respect and popularity." > > It is sad that an otherwise fine article is spoiled by this bit of spin :) > > If Spring brings out a new web framework, it's hailed as an > innovation. If Struts brrings out a new web framework, we're > "deserters". LOL. > > Of course, J2EE frameworks are not in a state of flux. Anyone who > brings anything out in the JSEE web arena, makes sure that it has some > link to Struts. The Spring WebFlow being an excellent case in point. > > Right now, J2EE is starting to go through the same transition > Microsoft went through two years ago, when "classic" ASP came up > against ASP.NET <http://ASP.NET>. And, even there, the transition > continues. Five years > later, I know Classic ASP shops that are just now planning a > migration. > > For J2EE applications, it's likely that the transition will take even > longer, since most Struts applications have *much* longer lifecycles > than most classic ASP applications. The J2EE transition is not going > to happen in "Internet time". It will happen in "Enterprise time". > > While it may be true that JSF is faster for new development, many of > us are not doing so much new development now. We're maintaining the > web applications we've already got, or finishing applications that > we've already started. Struts promised us applications that would be > easier to maintain than rewrite, and Struts delivered. > > Some of us just spent several years building an enterprise application > with Struts, and we're not planning a new product cycle any time soon. > Many others, after a year or two of planning, are just beginning a > multi-year project, and the choice of Struts has already been signed > and sealed. > > New projects will be shipping under Struts for years to come, and will > be maintained under Struts for many years to follow. It will be a very > long time, even a decade, before Struts Classic could even begin to > think about fading away. The tyranny of the installed base will not > permit otherwise. > > Of course, to my mind, the strangest part of the spin is that it > totally misses the point of an Apache project. An Apache project is > suppose to outlive the interest of its creators. Guys like Craig are > suppose to be able to go on to other things, and the project is > suppose to be able to steam along, with Borg-like aplomb. > > And, we have. We released 1.27 a short time ago, and, if James has his > way, a 1.3.0 release is imminent. Of course, 1.3.0 will be > very-much-a-beta, but it's coming. Since we've maintained strict > backward compatability from 1.0, we haven't rolled the major version > number, but 1.3.x will mark the fourth major release of Struts in six > years. Given the release cycles of products like J2EE and > ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET> > , > that's par for the course. > > Of course, we all know that Craig has not left the building. His > contributions to the project continue to be invaluable. But, it should > not be surprising that Struts Classic development marches on. Many > Struts essentials -- like Tiles, the Validator, DispatchActions, > declarative exception handling, JAAS integration, Nested tags -- are > all technologies that other developers brought to the table. > > And people continue to bring new Struts techologies to the table every > day. Like, say, the Struts-compatible Spring WebFlow :) > > -Ted. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
