OK, my post did look kind of ugly. It really wasn't directed at any person, just at the words.
I've been programming with Swing since 1.1.8 and finally I am able to do it for a living. I've heard all the Swing stinks arguments just like I've heard all the EJB stinks arguments. But I've built applications using each that don't stink. It took me a long time to get good at AWT/Swing/Graphics in Java. Years. The applications that people commonly use for a point of reference, such as Limewire, just don't illustrate what these APIs can do. You haven't seen what's behind corporate firewalls. JFC exposes much, graphically, that the underlying windowing toolkit has to offer. There is nothing stopping you from taking a blank panel, a Graphics2D and implementing your own layout managers and all your own controls. And they won't be slow unless you write code that doesn't take a Thread from point A to point B on the shortest route possible. In fact, they have a good chance of being awesome. But, you can get tangled up in large method stacks if you don't scour the source and examine a lot of stack traces, if you just blindly use the APIs and "recommended" coding styles. I've criticized Swing too. The main problem with it is that the authors used private and package-private fields and methods everywhere, making subclassing difficult and in some places nearly impossible. Library designers should use protected unless told otherwise. There are other criticisms but that's my main one. But, it made me mad when I started reading all these articles about SWT and Eclipse and how Swing "sucked". I didn't want Sun/JCP to ever buy that. People parrot that stuff. I want Sun/JCP to keep on working on it and keep on making it better. It has come a long way and you can do ANYTHING with it if you invest the time instead of looking for some framework or plugin to do everything for you. Anyway, I know, I'm on the wrong list. All I should have said is: Good Swing code is anything but "crap code". Erik -----Original Message----- From: "Frank W. Zammetti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Aug 10, 2005 3:38 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List <user@struts.apache.org> Subject: Re: Nice try (was Java code generator including Struts 1.2) Hey, back the testosterone truck up Erik... You want to disagree with the opinion? Fine, no problem. I don't think Swing is especially good. Show me where I'm wrong, I'll listen. No need to attack someone over something as trivial as saying some technology sucks... unless you created that technology, and even then it wouldn't be terribly appropriate. Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What a load of crap. > > Swing doesn't suck, you just suck at it. > > Erik > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Jouravlev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Aug 10, 2005 1:59 PM > To: Struts Users Mailing List <user@struts.apache.org> > Subject: Re: Nice try (was Java code generator including Struts 1.2) > > On 8/10/05, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>I remember having to deal with some Swing code that was created by a >>junior programmer using some IDE (I forget which frankly, it's not on the >>market any more - I want to say it was IBM's old one before WSAD, but I >>might be wrong). The code was such an immense tangle of crap it still >>makes me shudder to think of it all these years later. > > > The original problem is that Swing does not have resource files. > Apparently, Swing designers thought that Swing apps would have been > fluid and resizable, and it would have been hard to stick all fluidity > into a simple resource file. And now you have it. Swing code is crap > even when it is well-formatted, with these unwieldy listeners and a > forest of interfaces. There are nicer ways to create event listener > than to implement an interface with bunch of methods in it. > > And now we are switching to "why programming to interfaces" thread. > Swing is a clear example why programming to interfaces is sometimes > such a pain in the butt. > > Michael. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
