Craig McClanahan wrote:
On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Craig McClanahan wrote:
On 3/25/06, Jonathan Revusky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The question is, at the very least, broadly on-topic.
This interpretation is wildly out of sync with the formal description of
this mailing list's purpose[1], quoted below:
Subscribe to this list to communicate with other developers
that are using Struts for their own applications, including
questions about the installation of Struts, and the usage
of particular Struts features.
So where should such a question be asked, Craig? On rec.automotive? On
alt.politics.libertarian?
It still seems broadly on-topic to me. It's certainly a legitimate,
well-formulated question.
Seriously, the only other possibility I see is struts-dev. If it's
off-topic on both struts-user and struts-dev, then the question really
is (as I am starting to suppose) basically taboo.
What does the mailing list description for the dev list say?
Subscribe to this mailing list to communicate with other
developers interested in expanding and improving the
functionality supported by Struts itself.
Well, you know, one thing about this just occurred ot me. You, Craig,
have, during the time I have been here, made various posts to this list
that are off-topic by the narrow definition above. Let's consider this one:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.jakarta.struts.user/123252
How was this post of yours remotely on topic to this list? At least
given the description you post above.
How about this one?
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.jakarta.struts.user/123253
It is obvious that you yourself do not follow that strictly the supposed
rule above as to what is on-topic here. So this is basically red herring.
Besides, let us consider the following conceptual experiment. Suppose
this thread contained nothing but unctuous praise and flattery for the
Struts team, as in: "I just want to thank Craig and the rest of the team
for doing such a great job". By the definition of the list given above,
such posts would be just as off-topic. Does anybody here think you would
be trying to shut down such a thread?
It really should be quite obvious to anybody that you want to shut down
the thread because people are saying things that you don't like, not
because of any real issue of it being off-topic. And that is simply not
legitimate.
So I guess it depends on your goals :-).
So, cutting to the chase, if I pose the same question on struts-dev, you
and the others would answer it?
It wouldn't get rejected as off topic, but your rude and obnoxious behavior
has made me, speaking for myself, totally uninterested in whether you ever
receive closure on it. So I'll most likely just ignore you there as well as
here.
Okay, so you won't answer the question there either. So this is further
proof that the issue of it being off-topic for struts-user was a
dishonest pretext.
Well, that's it then. I guess this conversation is over. You have
completely discredited yourself. Congratulations.
I just have a couple more points.
As regards this throwaway ad-hominem stuff about my rude and obnoxious
behavior, people in glass houses really should not throw stones. My own
sense of things is that people have been incredibly rude and obnoxious
to me. I'm not talking just about yahoos jumping out of the woodwork
screaming at me to shut up. This includes people who you'd think should
be on their best behavior here, since they are Struts PMC members, like
James Mitchell, say. There was no sign, for example, that you
disapproved of James Mitchell insulting me as a result of my offering
honest feedback on your website.
I think that, in this discussion, people willing to have a good-faithed
discussion with me have found that, while I am a hard debater, I debate
fair and square and I maintain a civil tone. In the cases where my tone
becomes rude, I think you'll find it was because other people were rude
first.
I am actually rather inured to the rudeness issues, it's just that you
brought this up. What bothers me far more in this community is the level
of bad faith on display. For example, just here, the bad faith evident
in your claim that you want to stop the thread because it is off-topic,
rather than because the discussion is taking a turn that you don't like.
The more important point I want to make in closing though is that you
don't get it on some basic level. The reason to address the question of
why Struts stagnated has nothing to do with making *me* happy. You have
to address the question for your own benefit and that of your community.
Well, of course, this whole idea that you won't answer this question
because *I* am such a rude person is just a ridiculous attempt to weasel
out. The question has to be addressed and my personality has absolutely
nothing to do with it.
PS: Lest you think I'm an arrogant jerk that deigns to answer only
questions from "worthy" people, two notes of interest:
* If you count the number of questions that I've answered on
this list alone (let alone all the other lists I participate in),
it's in the many thousands.
Maybe so, but can that be taken as proof that you aren't behaving like
an "arrogant jerk" in this instance?
* Adding you to my internal ignore list just doubled its size.
This is the first time there has ever been more than one.
Human behavior is quite compartmentalized. You may well be a nice guy in
other contexts. I can only judge from what I see here. I find your
attitude and behavior deplorable.
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
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