It seems to me that the problem Paul Reedman describes isn't that of building layers on top of frameworks, but of building frameworks on top of frameworks.
I find that I often build an adapter layer around third-party subsystems to create an interface written specifically in the terms of my application. That gives me a natural abstraction to use within my application. As a side benefit, I get a seam (to use Michael Feather's term) for testing--I can test that my application uses the adapter the way I expect and I can test that the third-party subsystem behaves in the manner I expect. Such an adapter is not a general purpose framework, however. It's very specific to the application. I can't think of any time I've wrapped an MVC framework in this fashion, however. Instead, I wrap my application in an API that forms a convenient Model for the framework. Either way, I find it a good technique for keeping my business logic distinct from, and not directly dependent on, the framework. - George Dinwiddie http://www.idiacomputing.com/ Rob Manthey wrote > I found this recent par on a local JUG resonated for me and > had some theme parallels to Rick's current thread ... how > much do we over-code in ignorance of the natural mechanisms > available? (Sure, the uber-coders among us can code better > frameworks and deserve the fruits, but not we lesser-lings, > who usually tangle things more by trying on that caper.) Rob > > Paul Reedman wrote: > > ><snip/> > >I still run into Java projects that build their own > frameworks !!! Yes > >Struts or hibernate is not good enough, we need our own > framework, so > >lets spend precious several weeks (or months) of the project time > >recasting a new web framework. > > > >Another thing I have noticed is that Java people love > building layers. > >So a particular developer doesn't like the interface into > hibernate or > >struts (or whatever framework) so they build another layer on top of > >the framework. > > > >This layer then becomes complicated and so a whole bunch of other > >people add to the layer in an attempt to make it "easier". (which > >doesn't happen because all they have done is to make it more > >complicated) > > > >Of course this new layer hides everything and soon you have no idea > >what you are doing. Importantly no one documents this new layer, so > >when new people join the project, they ask "I don't understand this > >framework..". Of course they don't know that underneath all of this > >software is plain old struts which has disappeared from view. <snip/> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
