Thanks,

I just added the JIRA issue: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/UIMA-4729 
<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/UIMA-4729>

If you like, then we can also implement it and submit a patch, just let us know 
what the process is.

Cheers
Mario

> On 07 Jan 2016, at 09:08 , Peter Klügl <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Am 06.01.2016 um 14:48 schrieb Mario Gazzo:
>> Hi Peter,
>> 
>> I had a look at the test cases and I think there are many interesting and 
>> useful features that cover many of our use cases but I will have to 
>> experiment with them before I know what might be missing. I have a few 
>> questions though:
>> 
>> 1) It appears that we would then also be able to assign annotations to 
>> lists, which is nice. I am not sure from looking at the tests whether it is 
>> possible to use ADD with the annotation lists but I assume so.
> 
> Not yet, but I will implement it. It's still work in progress. But
> thanks for pointing it out, I would probably have forgotten about it.
> 
>> 2) The use of addresses is unclear to me just from reading the test, maybe 
>> you could explain them.? This concept is very new to me.
> 
> It's not intented be to utilized directly in a rule file. It's rather
> just a way to combine logic in java with ruta rules or use ruta
> functionality in java code.
> Let's say we have a new method like
> boolean Ruta.matches(CAS cas, String rule, AnnotationFS... annotations)
> and you call it with something like (syntax is not yet specified)
> Ruta.matches(cas, "${PARTOF(Headline)} Keyword;", annotation)
> Then, the "$" would be replaced by the address of the annotation and the
> method would return whether the annotation is covered by a Headline
> annotation and is followed by a Keyword annotation.
> 
>> 3) The annotation feature expression looks nice but I wonder whether an 
>> array element can also be referenced using an int expression and not just a 
>> constant e.g. Struct.as[intVar+1]{->T1};
> 
> Yes, without allowing number expressions, it would not really be useful.
> The current implementation is just a test in order to check whether the
> internal object model is good enough to cover it. The complete
> functionality will probably not be included in the next release since
> there is still much work left in order to get it up and running. The
> semantics of such expressions (Struct.as) are resolved on the fly, and
> the code odes not support expressions at all. I still have to think
> about a way to implement it.
> 
>> The label expressions are also useful and will make some of our rules more 
>> readable.
>> 
>> Finally I have one additional question to the MARKUP initialisation. I have 
>> a case where I need the token seeds coming from the default seeder but I 
>> don’t want to run the markup initialisation. Is there a separate seeder 
>> defined for this somewhere? Right now I have my own copy of the default 
>> seeder without the MARKUP initialisation but obviously I do not want to 
>> maintain this. It looks as if they could also be split in two seeders with 
>> both added as default and then I could overwrite with my own seeder list 
>> containing only the token seeder.
> 
> Yes, we can split them or just add another one that ignores markup. I
> was also always thinking about adding a DetailedSeeder that creates much
> more finegrained types like different brackets and quotes... but it was
> never on top of my todo list.
> 
> Do you want to open a jira issue for it?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Peter
> 
>> Cheers
>> Mario
>> 
>> 
>>> On 04 Jan 2016, at 17:06 , Peter Klügl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Am 04.01.2016 um 16:13 schrieb Mario Gazzo:
>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>> 
>>>> No problem, I was anyway pretty much offline myself during Christmas 
>>>> holidays.
>>>> 
>>>> The term “overhead” is probably an exaggeration in this context especially 
>>>> after I disabled the MARKUP initialisation. We implemented earlier our own 
>>>> XML markup annotator tailored to better fit our needs with additional 
>>>> annotation types and properties, so the Ruta MARKUP is currently not used. 
>>>> It just happens that we don’t directly use RutaBasic in any of our rules 
>>>> in this particular case so I was curious to know whether we could avoid 
>>>> creating them in the first place since there seems to be quite a few. 
>>>> However, overall processing required by our Ruta scripts compared to other 
>>>> processing steps is now small and sub-optimising this further by making 
>>>> RutaBasic optional would currently be of very low priority to us. We would 
>>>> prioritise other features higher e.g. being able to assign annotations to 
>>>> variables as we discussed previously in another thread.
>>> I am working on this right now and there is finally some first progress :-)
>>> 
>>> I fear that I won't catch all use cases (combinations with language
>>> elements) with the first attempt. If you are interested (and wanna take
>>> care I do not miss your use case), feel free to take a look at the new
>>> unit tests:
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/uima/ruta/trunk/ruta-core/src/test/java/org/apache/uima/ruta/expression/annotation
>>> 
>>> It's still work in progress. Proposals for more unit tests are very welcome.
>>> 
>>>> We haven’t processed documents as large as those you mention since books 
>>>> have so far been divided into chapters and processing could therefore be 
>>>> parallelised accordingly. We also drop extreme outliers above a certain 
>>>> size if we encounter them and then we batch process them later in smaller 
>>>> chunks but this has so far not been necessary with our current data sets. 
>>>> Like you, our processing bottlenecks are now in different components.
>>> Ah, that's nice to hear that ruta is not the bottleneck :-D
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Mario
>>>> 
>>>>> On 30 Dec 2015, at 16:44 , Peter Klügl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> sorry for the delayed reply.
>>>>> 
>>>>> RutaEngine::initializeStream:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The special treatment of MARKUPs that causes the increased time required 
>>>>> for initialization is just a workaround because I was to lazy to write a 
>>>>> working jflex rule. Well, I tried but failed. It shouldn't be hard be to 
>>>>> improve this code... I will create an issue for it. When I did the last 
>>>>> performance optimization, uima did not check the indexes yet and my test 
>>>>> set did not contain markups.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Deactivate creation of RutaBasic:
>>>>> Short answer is no. I was already thinking about making RutaBasic 
>>>>> optional in future so that the user can configure if they are used. 
>>>>> However, right now, they are required for rule inference and make the 
>>>>> rule inference "fast" in the first place. RutaBasic is just an internal 
>>>>> annotation like RutaAnnotation (for SCORE, MARKSCORE) and RutaFrame, and 
>>>>> rules should not match on them at all.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some background information:
>>>>> 
>>>>> RutaBasics are used for three things:
>>>>> - store additional information in order to avoid index operations. Some 
>>>>> useful conditions would require many index operations, e.g., PARTOF or 
>>>>> ENDSWITH. RutaBasic is utilized as a cache what annotations start and end 
>>>>> at which position, and which positions are covered by which types.
>>>>> - provide a container to make this information available across analysis 
>>>>> engines. Information shared by analysis engine is normally stored in the 
>>>>> CAS, e.g. in annotations, (or in external resources). This is the role of 
>>>>> RutaBasic. It is not really implemented right now as it should be but I 
>>>>> will improve it soon. Then, there is no performance decrease when a 
>>>>> pipeline is spammed with small ruta engines.
>>>>> - a basic minimal disjunct partitioning of the document for the coverage 
>>>>> based visibility concept.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Making RutaBasic optional is possible. If there is a real need for it, 
>>>>> e.g., in order to reduce the memory footprint or when processing large 
>>>>> documents where parts are simply not interesting, then I will put it on 
>>>>> my TODO list. I am also open for other/new ideas how to solve the 
>>>>> challenges (and for incremental usage of internal caches).
>>>>> 
>>>>> What is your experience with the processing overhead concerning 
>>>>> RutaBasic? Is it the rule matching or rather the initialization? I myself 
>>>>> had already some performance problems with the initalization and memory 
>>>>> consumption in large CAS (500+ pages pdfs). However, other components, 
>>>>> serialization and the CAS editor were the actual bottlenecks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Peter
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 22.12.2015 um 17:26 schrieb Mario Gazzo:
>>>>>> I got around it by removing the default seeders by specifying an empty 
>>>>>> seeders list since we don’t need the MARKUP annotations anymore.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I still don’t know why it created so much overhead but it sometimes 
>>>>>> seemed to rival the POS tagger in processing time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway, this leads me to the next question. Can I disable the creation 
>>>>>> of Ruta basic annotations entirely to save processing overhead and only 
>>>>>> apply Ruta rules to other annotation types created by other AEs such as 
>>>>>> our own?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Mario
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 21 Dec 2015, at 16:09 , Mario Juric <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I noticed that occasionally the initialisation in 
>>>>>>> RutaEngine::initializeStream can tak very long time. I can’t really 
>>>>>>> explain them and it seems independent of document length since I have 
>>>>>>> seen this with even very small XML documents.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The method seems to spend much time in the DefaultSeeder when creating 
>>>>>>> MARKUP annotations during subiterator.moveToNext calls (line 89) and 
>>>>>>> inside Subiterator it seems to be the while loop inside 
>>>>>>> adjustForStrictForward (line 232), which is inside UIMA core classes. I 
>>>>>>> haven’t gone into any deeper analysis yet but I first like to hear 
>>>>>>> whether you have an idea what could be the main cause(s) for this?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We use Ruta 2.3.1 with UIMA 2.8.1
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>> Mario
> 

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