I was thinking server side actually. If the switch is off, any attempt to 
reconfig is a no-op and the server would log a warning. If you we want to 
propagate the error up, then yeah, we need to start worrying about 
compatibility and such.

I also would rather see us address it, although I can fully understand that 
there are other fixes and improvements in 3.5 that people are interested in.

-Flavio

> On 17 Mar 2016, at 00:46, Patrick Hunt <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of turning it off to be honest. Also just turning
> it off at the API level wouldn't be enough, we'd need to turn it off
> at the protocol level (otw it could still be accessed).
> 
> I'd rather see us address it than kick it down the road. It's a major
> feature of 3.5.
> 
> Patrick
> 
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Flavio Junqueira <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The main issue to sort out is stability of the API. There is a security 
>> concern around the fact that clients can freely reconfigure the ensemble. If 
>> we follow the plan that Pat proposed some time ago:
>> 
>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/zookeeper-dev/201407.mbox/%3CCANLc_9KG6-Dhm=wwfuwzniogk70pg+ihmhpigyfjdslf9-e...@mail.gmail.com%3E
>>  
>> <https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/zookeeper-dev/201407.mbox/%3CCANLc_9KG6-Dhm=wwfuwzniogk70pg+ihmhpigyfjdslf9-e...@mail.gmail.com%3E>
>> 
>> Locking the API is the main step to move it to beta. Sorting out bugs is 
>> definitely necessary, but it isn't the main thing that is keeping 3.5 in 
>> alpha.
>> 
>> About making it experimental, I was raising the option of having a switch 
>> that disables the API calls, not the code. The reason why that could work is 
>> that anyone using 3.5 who uses the "experimental" API must explicit turn on 
>> the switch and enable the calls. If they do it, they need to be aware that 
>> the API can change.
>> 
>> I must say that I haven't really looked closely into doing it, and I'm not 
>> even entirely convinced that this is a good idea, but since Jason raised the 
>> point, I'm exploring options.
>> 
>> -Flavio
>> 
>>> On 16 Mar 2016, at 20:59, Alexander Shraer <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Looking at the list of ~50 blocker and critical bugs in ZooKeeper, only 3-4
>>> are related to reconfig. Given this, and the fact that it is run in
>>> production since 2012 in multiple companies, I don't think its more
>>> unstable than any other part of ZooKeeper.
>>> 
>>> There are multiple reconfig-related bugs that turned out really difficult
>>> to debug without access to the actual system or at least to the Hudson
>>> machines where some tests are failing. In the past, Michi and I physically
>>> went to Hortonworks to debug one such issue, but this is of course not a
>>> good method, and we weren't able to arrange such a visit again.
>>> 
>>> Regarding making it optional - the reconfig logic has several different
>>> parts, some would be really difficult to disable using a configuration
>>> parameter. But the actual dynamic expansion of the cluster is triggered by
>>> the reconfig command, so it should not affect users who don't invoke it.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Flavio P JUNQUEIRA <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I suppose we could give it a try. How do other folks feel about it?
>>>> 
>>>> -Flavio
>>>> On 16 Mar 2016 19:52, "Jason Rosenberg" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> So, you could enable the dynamic reconfiguration feature behind a config
>>>>> option, and document that it should only be enabled experimentally, use
>>>> at
>>>>> your own risk.  Keep it off by default.  Allow only static config by
>>>>> default, until it's stable?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jason
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Flavio Junqueira <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The consumer in Kafka is pretty independent from the core (brokers),
>>>>>> that's how that project manages to make such a separation. We don't
>>>> have
>>>>>> the same with ZooKeeper as the feature we are talking about is part of
>>>>> the
>>>>>> server and the only way I see of doing what you say is to turn off
>>>>>> features. More specifically, we'd need to disable the reconfig API and
>>>> do
>>>>>> not allow any change to the configuration, even though the code is
>>>> there.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Reconfig here refers to the ability of changing the configuration of an
>>>>>> ensemble (e.g., changing the set of servers).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Flavio
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16 Mar 2016, at 19:14, Jason Rosenberg <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So, it would seem sensible to me to have a release where all features
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> stable, except where noted.  E.g. mark certain features as only
>>>> 'alpha
>>>>>>> quality', e.g. the 're-config feature'.  (I assume it's possible to
>>>>>> happily
>>>>>>> use 3.5.X without exercising the unstable re-config bits?).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There's precedent for doing this sort of thing in other projects,
>>>> e.g.
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> Kafka, they've had several release where a new "Consumer API" is
>>>>> shipped
>>>>>>> that is available for beta-testing, but you can still just use the
>>>>> older
>>>>>>> stable consumer api, etc.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 2:01 PM, powell molleti
>>>>>> <[email protected]
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Doug,
>>>>>>>> Is 3.5 being an alpha release preventing you from using it?. Or have
>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> run into issues with it?. In general perhaps ZK 3.5 being labeled as
>>>>>> alpha
>>>>>>>> might not be fair, since it is far more stable then what most people
>>>>>>>> associate an alpha release to be.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps if you do not use re-config feature may be it will just work
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> you?.
>>>>>>>> There are many examples of 3.5.X being used in productions from my
>>>>>> limited
>>>>>>>> knowledge.
>>>>>>>> ThanksPowell.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>  On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 2:44 AM, Flavio Junqueira <
>>>>>> [email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> None of us expected the reconfig changes to take this long to
>>>>> stabilize.
>>>>>>>> Until we get there, I don't think we can do anything else with 3.5.
>>>>> The
>>>>>>>> best bet we have is to work harder to bring 3.5 into a stable rather
>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> trying to work around it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There are lots of people interested in seeing 3.5 stable, and if we
>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> everyone to contribute more patches and code reviews, we should be
>>>>> able
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> do it sooner. After all, it is a community based effort, so the
>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>> shouldn't rely on just 2-3 people doing the work.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -Flavio
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 15 Mar 2016, at 17:28, Chris Nauroth <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Doug, I forgot to respond to your question about 3.4.  Since 3.4 is
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> stable maintenance line, we are very conservative about
>>>> back-porting
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> it.  Our policy is to limit back-ports to critical bug fixes and
>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> introduce any new features in the 3.4 line.  This is a matter of
>>>>>> managing
>>>>>>>>> risk.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jason, your question about release cadence is a fair one.  If it's
>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> consolation, we are now taking the approach of trying to limit the
>>>>>> scope
>>>>>>>>> of anything new introduced in 3.5 too.  That would allow us to
>>>> focus
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> stabilization: resolving blocker bugs and freezing public APIs.  I
>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> this will help us accelerate the releases into beta and eventual
>>>> GA.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I am new to ZooKeeper release management, so I'd like to hear
>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>>>>> from more experienced committers and PMC members about your
>>>> proposal
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> try to cut a stable release for a limited subset of what is in
>>>>>> branch-3.5
>>>>>>>>> now.  My instinct is that it would be challenging to cherry-pick
>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> pieces of branch-3.5 piecemeal at this point.  This would become
>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>> release line for an already resource-constrained volunteer staff to
>>>>>>>>> manage.  I'd prefer to dedicate those limited resources to overall
>>>>> 3.5
>>>>>>>>> stabilization.  Also, a 3.5 release in which certain features
>>>>>> "vanished"
>>>>>>>>> because of not meeting some stability criteria would be
>>>> undesirable.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --Chris Nauroth
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/16, 10:12 AM, "Jason Rosenberg" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Can you say whether some parts of 3.5.X are more stable than
>>>> others
>>>>>>>> (e.g.
>>>>>>>>>> if we don't care about certain new features, is it relatively
>>>>> stable)?
>>>>>>>>>> Would it be possible to cut out a version that only has the bits
>>>> we
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>> are stable (and release that)?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From that timeline, and the historic release cadence, it would
>>>> seem
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> years away before we get to the stable release?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Chris Nauroth <
>>>>>>>> [email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Doug,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your interest in the SSL feature!
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> At this point, I think we're still pretty far away from
>>>> declaring a
>>>>>>>>>>> stable
>>>>>>>>>>> release in the 3.5 line.  I don't think we're close enough that
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> offer a reliable ETA.  This is an earlier thread that describes
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> high-level strategy for release planning in the 3.5 line:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> https://s.apache.org/ADK1
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> The next step is a 3.5.2-alpha release.  We're working on
>>>>> resolving a
>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>> more blockers before we produce a release candidate.  Hopefully
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> get done in the next few weeks.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --Chris Nauroth
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/16, 9:39 AM, "Doug" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know it's only been a few months, but I was wondering if there
>>>>>> was a
>>>>>>>>>>>> ballpark release date for a stable version of 3.5.1. Or is there
>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>> chance
>>>>>>>>>>>> the SSL feature would be added to 3.4.8? Just another person
>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> that feature in a stable version. Thanks for all you do! :)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> http://zookeeper-user.578899.n2.nabble.com/Zookeeper-with-SSL-release-dat
>>>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>>>>> -tp7581744p7582136.html
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from the zookeeper-user mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 

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