Hey Tamas, The big picture here is that we, over at Xalan-J, well, Joe's doing the work, are porting Xalan-J from Ant to Maven.
Gary On Sun, Nov 19, 2023, 7:05 PM Tamás Cservenák <[email protected]> wrote: > Now am very interested where this goes, please continue... > > T > > On Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 00:26 Joseph Kesselman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Maven's declarative nature may be its second greatest strength, following > > platform independence and preceding the rich plugin collection. > > > > The lack of any _dependency_ driven flow below the module level -- > > apparently typically solved by throwing more modules into the mix just to > > achieve sequencing, or trying to use the fixed sequencing of the stages > -- > > may be its greatest weakness. Note that I'm still having to play games > with > > when site runs; site depends on code in the package, and the download > > zipfiles depend upon site. > > > > Alex grants that if you're pushing declarative build design as a Maven > > advantage, _make_ beat you the punch by about half a century, and is > fully > > dependency driven; its major downsides are that it doesn't have platform > > independence and isn't new and sexy and markup language based. > > > > I really expected Maven to handle that better. > > > > So my half-thought is what it would take to change from stages to > > dependencies, and how much of the Maven design would have to be thrown > out > > the window to achieve it... or at least to draft a prototype that could > > leverage what's already been done. > > > > Maven does beat Ant. And it has the plugin tooling and auto-fetch from > > libraries. But the lack of dependency-driven execution Bothers me. > > > > Vlad favors Gradle. I don't know if Gradle is better, worse, or just > > different, but from what he's said it sounds like it does have the > ability > > to update just what it must, as make did, and to handle sequences that > > don't match the predefined stage sequences. Maybe it's time to consider > > crossbreeding. > > > > I may change my mind after further exposure to Maven, but that's my > > reaction to what I've seen of it so far and how much help I needed to > > understand its quirks. > > > > > > > > -- > > /_ Joe Kesselman (he/him/his) > > -/ _) My Alexa skill for New Music/New Sounds fans: > > / https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WJ3H657/ > > > > Caveat: Opinionated old geezer with overcompensated writer's block. May > be > > redundant, verbose, prolix, sesquipedalian, didactic, officious, or > > redundant. > > ________________________________ > > From: Gary Gregory <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 5:55:40 PM > > To: Maven Users List <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: Pure curiosity > > > > You can get an idea by downloading the source zip file from > > https://maven.apache.org/download.cgi and and counting something like > Java > > source files or kilobytes' worth of Java files, or LoCs... > > > > FWIW, I see Gradle mentioned here and there in our issues. Using > > Gradlebwould be a huge mistake IMO... I really don't like Gradle. > > > > Maven has its quirks, sure, but if you implement a build using Maven's > > philosophy of "configuration by exception", you end up with a nice easy > to > > maintain build. > > > > Gary > > > > On Sun, Nov 19, 2023, 5:39 PM Joseph Kesselman <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > How large is the actual Maven core application itself, without even the > > > "standard" plugins? > > > > > > (I've got half an idea and am trying to guess how much work it would be > > to > > > prototype something.) > > > > > > -- > > > /_ Joe Kesselman (he/him/his) > > > -/ _) My Alexa skill for New Music/New Sounds fans: > > > / https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WJ3H657/ > > > > > > Caveat: Opinionated old geezer with overcompensated writer's block. May > > be > > > redundant, verbose, prolix, sesquipedalian, didactic, officious, or > > > redundant. > > > > > >
