I sincerely hope it never does. XML isn't worth "a pile of fetid dingo kidney" (TM) as a scripting language ;-).
What about XSLT, which has been proven to be Turing-compatible ?
The point is not whether the user can write a flow script in JAvaScript or XML. I don't want to use XML as a scripting language either. All that is needed is ability to define basic flows that don't involve significant logic beyond what can be done using JXPath using XML. Is that possible ?
Do you really think that any moron can script logic in XML using XMLSpy? Why not in Javascript, then?
Not any moron; only people who are fairly comfortable with things like XSLT.
you really find lots of developers familiar with it? Will you be able in the future? Learning the Woody markup can be done in a few hours, so
All right.
There are currently XForms books on the market (correct me if I am wrong, I believe an O'Reilly one just came out). Woody is not ready to be documented by a publisher yet.
The reason is simple: Woody is not complex enough to need a book ;-)
Woody takes a pragmatic approach to form handling problems where XForms started by the initial requirement to build an XML document associated to an XML Schema in the browser.
XForms is more likely to be accepted by an XYZ MegaCorp in the U.S. than Woody/Cocoon Forms.
Well, not later than this afternoon, I had a meeting with MVC zealots that were only speaking of "pure" MVC, Struts, "pure" JSP (no code), etc. I demonstrated them flowscript and woody (using my GT presentation which you can find in the cocoon downloads) and we ended the meeting with them saying "wow, this is a really clean MVC with strong separation of concerns, and looks very easy to use".
This how people can be convinced: just show them something that works instead of the next-generation bloated spec.
it's not that big deal, isn't it?
It is not a big deal to me personally. However, I had a hard time advocating XML at my previous project last year. The client was one of those American XYZ MegaBanks. 90% of the developers did not want to deal with learning more XML grammars than they should. They didn't even want to learn how to use custom JSP taglibs that I've written.
You really should go to ABC SuperBanks: they love XML and Cocoon ;-)
Antonio pointed out earlier that "From mid last year to today I needed to learn: Java, HTML, XHTML, CSS, XML, XSLT, POI, FOP, SVG, SITEMAP, XSP, XPATH, Javascript, OJB, JDO, Original DB Actions, Modular DB Actions, Forrest." There is a limit to how much a single person can learn, and the amount of time one is allowed to spend learning on the job is finite. The less to learn the better and more productive developers can be.
I found by experience that using Woody + Flowscript involves really few technologies: Javascript for the flow (but don't you already know it if you know HTML and/or Java?) and a lightweight declarative markup (the woody form definition). Not more than that.
Ah yes, you also need to learn a bunch of "wt:" elements for the form template. But even this can be avoided: before the abovementioned meeting, I hacked a 20-lines XSL that turns a plain old HTML page (without any single additional attribute) into a woody template.
Sylvain
-- Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com { XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects } Orixo, the opensource XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
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