In reply to: (some previous detail omitted) >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2004/03/11 10:13:17 PM >>>
>Hmm, again being a cocoon newbie, I thought XSPs with cocoon were like JSPs >when used with struts. Hence they are more for "presentation"--or in the >sense "view"--rather than the controller/model aspect in struts actions. If >so, I don't think XSPs are appropriate for handling controller-like logic. >Correct me if I'm wrong about the whole XSP thing. Well, I guess it depends on how you define your terms - I am not too hung up on MVC, and I am not sure that bending the universe to fit into that "view" (for want of a better term!) is necessarily a Good Thing. That being said, XSP was primarily designed to be able be generate data, where the generation procedure depends on some logic. The logic can be encapsulated into reusable logic sheets (really, fragments of Java code) or embedded into the source XSP. I would not use them for viewing data per se. So no, I would not compare them to JSP in Struts (bearing in mind that it is a *long* time since I have used JSP; looking back now it seems a very clunky mishmash approach...) - but you are right that XSP are not for doing overall application "control" - that is the role of the sitemap and/or control flow. >I skimmed through this and still can't quite see how this type of >control/logic flow fits in the perspective of 1) take requests, 2) grab info >from form, 3) call appropriate java business logic and process any related >information, 4) forward to page with processed information. What can I say? its there, as I said, in conjunction with the sitemap... >My first problem with cocoon control logic is that it seems to rely on a >JavaScript-like language. Not sure why this is a problem per se? >Can this type of scripting language invoke Java >business logic directly? Yes. >Personally I would like the controller to be in >Java since it will have to invoke java-based logic regardless. Well, a language is just a language - heck, you could write your entire webapp in pure java and stop messing around with all these higher level abstractions that "hide" the Real Code, if you are that way inclined! > Secondly, seems to me this control flow mechanism is really just a forwarding > system based on the state of the system. No controller-like functionality here. If >this is the case, then cocoon control flow is just like declaring global/local action > forwards in the struts-config. Hmm, as I said right at the start I am not familiar with Struts and cannot compare aspects directly - what additional "controller-like functionality" do you need that cannot be embedded in customized Java actions (that you could write) and called from Cocoon? Analogies can be helpful, but can also limit to your view to existing paradigms... > Another question that I have regarding the previous post was that cocoon > actions could not call the business layer directly? I thought that these > actions were able to do that. For example, suppose a form gets submitted by > a user. Cocoon picks this up and forwards it to a particular cocoon action. > This action grabs the form parameters via woody, calls a service defined > by the business tier (passing any required parameters supplied in the form), > processes any result returned by this service, and packages the final result > via a Map to be returned to the user. Now my question is, can this > particular scenario be done with a cocoon action? AFAIK, yes - but you will have to ask more experienced heads than mine about this one! > Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks again! Keep reading and asking - maybe browse the mail archives and ask more specific questions in particular threads. People will probably say "it can be done" but are unlikely to want to write code for you unless they can see you are attempting something first yourself... Derek >HTH > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/11/04 8:38 PM >>> >Well, in essence, struts actions do return a "forward". However, the >page/action to forward to is agnostic in practice, i.e. the actual page >or >action to forward next is defined separately in a config file called >struts-config.xml (I think this is similar to the sitemap). So really >the >configuration where struts does its forwarding is outside of the action > >classes. > >In theory, the struts actions are extensions of the controller (or >model, >depending on how you interpret it) in the MVC paradigm. They can >represent >the actual business logic, but in practice they are used as >delegates--calling business objects to do the work. Hence struts >actions >are like a service layer for the front-end, interacting with the >business >layer. Looking at cocoon actions, they return a Map containing >information >used for display purposes. This can be done in struts actions by >explicitly >putting the information into the request (usually encapsulated as a >bean) >that can be easily manipulated with struts or jstl tags. > >Therefore my understanding thus far about cocoon when comparing it to >struts >is that the cocoon actions are "similar" to struts actions. Do you use >cocoon actions more often then the *traditional* pipeline for doing MVC >applications? I really don't see anywhere else in the cocoon framework >where there is an explicit class that handles requests, calls services >from >the business layer and returns a response. Everything else in cocoon >seems >to be all transformations of some sort. > >Also, struts has a neat thing with declaring forms. There is the >traditional way of creating POJOs via ActionForms and there is the >declarative way defined in the struts-config called DynaForms. In >cocoon, I >see something called "woody" and "xforms". I have no clue how these >forms >are used within the cocoon framework, particular with cocoon actions. >In >struts, the form used for submission is explicitly passed to the action >handling the form. In cocoon actions, I don't see any woody form being >passed in... > >Any more suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks! > >-los > > > >From: Ralph Goers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: new to cocoon question > >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:11:31 -0800 > > > >Pardon my ignorance on Struts as I haven't used it extensively either, >but > >my recollection is that Struts invokes Actions which then return a >forward > >- > >in essence telling the controller what to do next based upon what the > >business logic for the action did. This, in essence and IMO, makes the > >Action more knowledgeable than it should be. > > > >Cocoon's notion of an action is somewhat different, although it can be > >subverted to behave very similarly to a Struts action. Typically >actions > >in > >Cocoon simply return information in a Map object. The pipeline is > >configured to operate upon that data in any manner it sees fit. Thus, >the > >action is in the business of simply returning information rather than > >acting > >as a director. > > > >Ralph > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Derek Hohls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:57 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: new to cocoon question > > > >Interesting question - in brief, actions are primarily used *inside* > >pipelines to act as logic "switches" between different choices; or to > >allow easy handling of case failures. I am not sure how this >corresponds > >to what Struts does - I actually would like to find out more about > >Struts > >as there a number of developers I know that use it, to whom I'd like to > >relate a little better - if there is any reading you can point me > >towards > >to grasp that framework's approaches, I'd be happy to share any > >comparisons I find (as this is something I want to do anyway...) > > > >Derek > > > >D Hohls > >Environmental Systems Developer > >CSIR Environmentek > >PO Box 17001 > >Kwa-Zulu Natal > >South Africa > >4013 > >www.csir.co.za > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Frustrated with dial-up? 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