ML Obviously Cocoon does offer multiple paths to a solution; and it seems this debate of what constitutes "good" or even "acceptable" paths comes up time-and-time again - unfortunately usually when a relative newcomer wants advice. The original, seemingly-innocent question was: "How I could choose if I need an action or a logicsheet"
And we are now getting to "dispense with the built-in transformers"; and moving to "Go Forth and Learn Hibernate and Spring"! Sorry - but I do disagree strongly with this; Cocoon by itself has perfectly competent set of tools in its tool-box to let you get at 100% of what you need for 90-95%% of the time... assuming "standard" web apps. For an average developer, learning Hibernate and Spring is a MAJOR hurdle and time-investment and, lets be honest here, the documentation and guidelines to get all these working with Cocoon is shaky at best. Somewhere, somehow, this community needs to get a "simple roadmap for using Cocoon AS IS" (ie. no plug-ins, add-ons, bonus frameworks etc. etc.) in place. My 2c is that this would be a set of built-in transformers (SQL, send mail etc) along with flow (and CForms); there are solid examples of these in place already, which could be extended further as needed. Minimal, if any, Java knowledge is needed and you can be productive relatively quickly. If this level does not offer the power/flexibility you need i.e. you have very demanding requirements or you'd simply like more toys to play with, there is a wide scope beyond this for lots more. <end_rant/> Derek >>> Mark Lundquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2006/08/01 08:14:45 PM >>> On Aug 1, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Martijn C. Vos wrote: > > Mark Lundquist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> Note: I would avoid a design that called for any kind of custom >> transformer that's meant to be used for its side effects... that >> probably indicates an abuse of the sitemap. Pipelines should be for >> generating data. > > Why? Good question :-) I started asking myself that, right after I posted that opinion. In Cocoon everything is mediated by the sitemap. So there's always a pipeline, so what difference does it make whether that pipeline invokes a transformer or dispatches a flow function? It's just one "tag" (<transform>) vs. another (<call>), so who cares? To me, some things feel declarative and some things feel imperative. Declarative things feel like they belong in the sitemap, and imperative things feel like they belong in flow (or below, in the model layer). Shoehorning imperative-feeling things into the sitemap feels wrong to me... so does imperative processing for things that feel like they should be in the sitemap (or to get rid of the sitemap or make it less declarative, e.g. "why can't the sitemap just be a script, it would be so much more flexible"?). > There are lots of popular transformers that exist almost > entirely for their side effects: the sql, sendmail, sourcewriting and > dasl transformers all exist entirely for their side effects; Indeed. But notably, 1) Those are all pre-flow solutions that were created before it was figured out that flow was needed; 2) I don't use 'em... I use Hibernate for all DB stuff, and for sending mail I use either the Spring mail component, or the Cocoon MailSender component, called directly from flowscript or from Java (in the model layer). 3) Just because something exists, doesn't mean much... XSP exists too, but I wouldn't touch it w/ a ten foot pole (that's 3.048 meters for the rest of the world :-) Anyway, like I said that's just what feel right for me, not trying to be dogmatic... cheers, ml --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright, terms and conditions and e-mail legal notice. Views expressed herein do not necessarily represent the views of the CSIR. CSIR E-mail Legal Notice http://mail.csir.co.za/CSIR_eMail_Legal_Notice.html CSIR Copyright, Terms and Conditions http://mail.csir.co.za/CSIR_Copyright.html For electronic copies of the CSIR Copyright, Terms and Conditions and the CSIR Legal Notice send a blank message with REQUEST LEGAL in the subject line to [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
