-----Original Message----- From: planas [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 19:33 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?
Hi On Wed, 2011-09-07 at 21:29 -0400, Don Myers wrote: > Reply below: > > On 09/07/2011 08:02 PM, NoOp wrote: > > For those that continue to insist on top posting on the LO lists: please > > consider bottom posting with interspersed replies. > > > > I realiz(s)e that the existing: > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ > > doesn't specifically clarify anything with regards to top/bottom > > posting. However at the bottom of each mail on this list is a link to: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > That page doesn't help much either, but it /does/ include a link to: > > http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > which includes this bit: > > http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html#ss2.3 > > > > <quote> > > 2.3 Why should I place my response below the quoted text? > > > > Usually, the reading-flow is from left to right and from top to bottom, > > and people expect a chronological sequence similar to this. Especially > > people who are reading a lot of articles (and who therefore would > > qualify as the ideal person to answer your question) appreciate it if > > they can read at first the text to which you are referring. The quoted > > text is some kind of help to remember the topic, which of course will > > not work, if you place the quoted text below your response. > > > > Furthermore, that's the standard. This may sound as a weak argument, but > > since people are not used to reading the other way around, they have no > > idea what you are referring to and have to go back and forth between the > > referenced articles, have to jump between different articles and so on. > > In short - reading the article becomes more and more difficult - for > > people who read many articles it is reason enough to skip the entire > > article, if the context is not obvious. > > > > And besides: doesn't it look stupid to first get the answer and then see > > the question? (Aside from Jeopardy, of course.) > > > > Furthermore, you (yes: You) save a lot of time using this way of > > quoting: You do not need to repeat what the person you refer to wrote, > > in order to show the context. You just place your comment after the text > > you wish to comment upon, and everybody immediately knows what you refer > > to. Also, you realize which text you are *not* responding to and can > > delete these parts. > > > > So: using this technique you save time, your readers don't have to waste > > time, you save bandwidth and disk-space. Isn't it great what you can > > achieve by such simple means? > > </quote> > > > > and that seems to imply that such posting styles on this list are the > > desired guideline. > > > > Samples of similar on other lists: > > > > http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/etiquette.html > > <quote> > > Top-posting vs bottom-posting. > > > > Some people like to put reply after the quoted text, some like it > > the other way around, and still some prefer interspersed style. Debates > > about which posting style is better have led to many flame wars in the > > forums. To keep forum discussion friendly, please do interspersion with > > trimming (see above for trimming rules). For a simple reply, this is > > equivalent bottom-posting. So, remove extraneous material, and place > > your comments in logical order, after the text you are commenting upon. > > The only exceptions are the accessibility forums, which are top-posting. > > </quote> > > > > http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists > > <quote> > > Proper quoting: > > > > Proper quoting is very important on mailing lists, to ensure that it is > > easy to follow the conversation. There are four fundamental rules: > > > > .... > > > > Write your email underneath the email which you are replying to. > > ... > > </quote> > > > > and even: > > http://www.openoffice.org/ml_guidelines.html > > <quote> > > Replying > > When replying to other people it is customary to intersperse your > > response with their questions, both so you can answer the actual > > question that was asked, and so everyone else has some idea what you are > > talking about. It is also customary to limit your quoting to the minimum > > possible to get your point across. Take the time to be considerate, > > remember those subscribers who have slow, expensive connections. > > </quote> > > > > Note: that last is liable to go away given the recent > > transition/announcements by Apache regarding mail lists... but it's > > worth mentioning anyway. > > > > Eventually I hope that LO will actually include a link to general > > posting guidelines on the > > <http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/> page with complete > > posting guidelines. Even if the final consensus is to only top post... > > at least will help with consistancy on this (users), and the other LO lists. > > > > Added Note: I've set the 'Followup-to' on this message to the discuss > > list as I think that is more the appropriate location for continued > > discussion of the issue. But I posted here initially on the users list > > as this is the list that really needs the guidelines (IMO) the most. > > > > > > > Hi All, > > I will respect your wishes about posting at the bottom. I live in the > US. I do a lot of work e-mails in my job, and receive a lot of work > e-mails. I never receive any e-mails where people reply to me at the > bottom. The reply is always at the top. I never understood why > Thunderbird had the default to reply at the bottom when Thunderbird came > out. It was backwards!!!!!! So I have always changed the default on > every system I've installed it on. Maybe there are different customs in > different countries. > > Don The real reason is on a list one may be joining the thread late and needs to know what has been discussed. Often business emails are just written conversations between people. Thus top posting works there very well. <orcmid> Oddly, on the Apache lists retention of the full text and bottom posting attracts giant thunderbolts because so many users rely on a service like GMANE to read the list and so they always have context and don't need all of that material repeated endlessly. It is in their way. On the other hand, over there I am eviscerated because I keep breaking threads, but never for top posting. And this is the last time I will bottom post, only because I know the preceding poster did. You'll also notice that my reply doesn't have an additional set of brackets, so in-line commenting makes it very difficult to know what is new comment and what is from the previous message. PS: It is often handy to see the answer first. I can quickly determine whether or not I care what the question is. And if I know what the general run of a thread has been, I don't need to see the rest of the message except to check for blankety-blank inline but unannounced comments. PPS:I even receive my mail last-in first and I can process it that way. Sometimes I see the answer at the end of a long thread first and I know I can ignore the intermediate replies. I don't *always* do that, but it can be very handy. PPPS: I am amused that, for the years of struggle with working on lists and email and newsgroups, there is still this notion of a forced one size fits all as if it really fits all. </orcmid> -- > > *** > * > > -- Jay Lozier [email protected] -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: [email protected] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: [email protected] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
