+1

I also consider really useful a TabOrderService or similar that could allow 
define the tab order for a given Entity.

A default implementation could navigate from top to bottom, left to right, by 
groups.


> El 20 abr 2016, a las 11:08, Stephen Cameron <[email protected]> 
> escribió:
> 
> Thanks for the detailed explanation, and I am just as interested to hear
> others opinions too.
> 
> Taking a nationalist (fellow Aussie) stance, if thats the way Jira does it
> then its probably good. ;)
> 
> The one major concern I have is simply the efficient manual entry of large
> amounts of data, maybe from a paper format, so being able to enter data by
> tabbing without using the mouse is still desired by some.  Maybe there is a
> the need for another kind of viewer for this scenario?
> 
> This conversation has been had before, with the workflow add-on suggested
> as a possible solution. But there is also the scenario of needing a
> printable form. I'd like to be able to maintain one version of a such a
> printable 'form' only, that is to design something that can be printed and
> handed to be people for filling out, but which in its electronic form can
> be used for easy data-entry straight into the database.
> 
> I've considered using Orbeon Forms (an XForms framework) in concert with
> Apache Isis as the solution to this issue. With JAXB support now in Isis it
> does seem like a nice combo, XML from the XForm into Apache Isis (and
> database) via JAXB.
> 
> See a few inline comments below
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Dan Haywood <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Steve,
>> 
>> Thanks for the feedback.
>> 
>> There are several reasons why I've made this change, some practical, some
>> more philosophical.
>> 
>> The practical reason is that with tabs, it's not particularly clear what a
>> global edit should be... should it be for all properties, including those
>> not visible on other tabs?  or should it somehow disable being able to
>> switch tabs when in edit mode? or perhaps there should be not a global edit
>> but instead an edit per fieldset/member group?  It wasn't at all clear
>> which was preferable.
>> 
>> Second, we've had a ticket knocking around for a while to move editing
>> towards that in JIRA, where one clicks in the field and then can do an
>> in-situ edit.  The current implementation isn't quite a slick as that, but
>> the number of clicks is actually the same.
>> 
>> The philosophical reason is that, actually, it positions the framework away
>> from the common perception of it being a CRUD framework; instead it is also
>> for (even mostly for) complex domains where the is significant business
>> logic to transition from one state of the system to another.  When Jeroen
>> was implementing Estatio he deliberately made all fields read-only (in
>> stark contrast to the packaged application it replaced), not because there
>> wasn't a requirement to allow the data to be changed, but instead he wanted
>> the business users to come back to him and explain WHY the data should be
>> changed.  (For example, changing the end of a tenancy date has impact
>> elsewhere).  So it helped us get a deeper insight into the domain, and we
>> encoded that insight into actions.
>> 
>> This is where I am departing in that what I have is essentially a CRUD
> app. Such an app with multiple viewers, all easy to maintain, and with the
> capacity for adding complexity where necessary (via actions,  different
> user authorisations) is still a very good thing to have.
> 
> 
>> For the big Naked Objects system in Ireland, we also only have actions, no
>> edits... eg award a pension claim or disallow a jobseekers allowance
>> claim.  Even for small stuff, eg a customer wants to change their phone
>> number, then this is an action because we then want to retain the old
>> address on file in a list of previous phone numbers.
>> 
>> So I don't think that de-emphasising edit mode takes us away from the naked
>> objects pattern.
> 
> I kind of see your point, but maybe it would be nice to make this
> configurable, that is non-edit is default and you add actions to change
> state, or, edit as default and no actions needed? (the later to please us
> crudites, its a web-form mode I feel).
> 
>> 
>> In terms of changes to the viewer... as I say: eventually I intend to
>> implement in-place edits, which will remove the buttons.  Another
>> short-term option might be to move the edit icon to the right of the field
>> (same place that actions go if positioned to the right).  A medium term
>> option might be to introduce an edit button for the entire fieldset, but
>> I'm not completely convinced that it's necessary.
> 
> Just moving the edit icon to the right as a short-term option would be
> good.
> 
>> 
>> (By the way, the change has nothing to do with JAXB view models being
>> editable).
>> 
>> Let me know your thoughts... and others reading this, too, please!
>> 
>> Thx
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 20 April 2016 at 03:00, Stephen Cameron <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I want to give a little feed-back on the addition of the edit button to
>> the
>>> bottom right of each editable control. I note that this is probably a
>>> temporary thing but I'm not very keen on it so encourage a change to be
>>> made.
>>> 
>>> My problems with it are that its pushes the next control down the page
>> and
>>> wastes space, and it means more actions if you are editing more than one
>>> item.
>>> 
>>> One solution is to make all controls non-editable and provide a
>> mass-update
>>> action inside each group, this seems common in Estatio, but I don't see
>> it
>>> as a good practice get into, unless common workflows suggest it, there
>> is a
>>> far bit of work to do it and it seems to take you away from the Naked
>>> Objects paradigm.
>>> 
>>> The question is what is the best solution?
>>> 
>>> Personally I thought the global Edit (mode) button was fine, its pretty
>>> standard. But placing it in the left column under all the groups did have
>>> the undesirable effect of pushing it down out of sight sometimes. With
>> tabs
>>> that is not a good solution either, i.e on the first tab, and putting it
>>> under the tab-panel not any better.
>>> 
>>> One solution is to put it into the first 'title' row of the page, but
>>> aligned on the right-hand side to differentiate is from other actions
>> that
>>> might be there, its kind of an action button.
>>> 
>>> Having tabs is very welcome though, so now I have a dilemma. Go to 1.12
>> or
>>> wait to see if the edit buttons disappear in 1.13. I am inclined to stay
>> at
>>> 1.11.
>>> 
>>> Of course, as mentioned, there were issues associated with making JAXB
>> view
>>> models editable. If this has led to too much complexity in the viewer
>> then
>>> maybe it wasn't such a good move? My concern with that aspect has been
>> that
>>> conflating JAXB and a View-model mode.
>>> 
>>> I hope this is of some usefulness.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> Steve Cameron
>> 

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