Hi All, I'd like to make some kind of a contribution to this discussion, though I agree with most of what I see written. But I'd also like to be a "devils advocate" a little too.
I'm interested to get more work with Apache Isis, I have one live application with a small group of users (about 10) who enjoy using it and its been very reliable now for about 6 months. I also have a personal project that I am developing as well,as time allows, one that I'm trying to use best-practices on, well making use of what I learned on the first project. In regards to marketing of Apache Isis, to explain my thinking i'll first state that to me IT seems to me both fashion driven and conservative at the same time. Fashion driven in that waves of what appears new cycle through repeatedly, are latched onto by the big players - when it suites their ends, and then get diluted as the novelty is duplicated or incorporated into the establised encumbent systems or languages. Conservative in that major change such as using an new application framework is expensive and has risks, and very few established businesses are interested in leading technically, that is unless their business model is competition based on technology. I think of something like SAP's ERP systems as the purchaser organisation conforming to the SAP domain model, so the opposite of being interested in using DDD and for many businesses it makes sense (despite the cost) to go this way. Also conservative in that what comes to be a dominant 'paradigm' in open-source software isn't necessarily the technically most advanced, rather its what satisfies a need at a specific time and then becomes well-known and rapidly improved too, I am thinking of numerous PHP based things, more recently AngularJS. Once established its very hard to displace. So I am leaning more towards the idea of Apache Isis marketing being targeted mostly at a technical audience, maybe even at a very technical one, that this is the best means for Apache Isis to grab a little "slice of the action" and as a result to prosper in the long-term. I agree 100% with its strengths, as have been described, being in a complex domain app scenario, but also that there are just so many good alternatives being use for the less complex (but maybe nicer looking) things, and many developers competing for the work. My vision is essentially an enhanced version of what I see currently exists in the project, that there are now very competent programmers (I am not in that league) doing a few very complex projects and the framework is progressively being improved within in a feed-back loop, something is needed someone (usually Dan) does it essentially. The way to make this more sustainable is for more such projects to get going (I hope my project can be one of them eventually). So, 3 things seem desirable, (1) get some more good (complex) projects started with Apache Isis, (2) try to stop projects for which Apache Isis is not a good fit being started and taking time on the mailing list and potentially failing too (3) seeking feedback on why Apache Isis was not chosen when it potentially would have been a good fit. I can think of a few ideas with regards to (1), (2) and (3) are maybe another email. Getting some more good projects started My strategy has been to look for potential clients that will benefit from complex custom (or customised) software and to target them. I've not been very successful in this so far I have to admit, I attribute this in part to my own sales ability, but also to my location in Tasmania which doesn't have alot of head-offices where CTOs are generally. located. However, there are a few industries that are growing here and I'm now seeking small but growing firms in those sectors (food and maybe tourism). One major sector I have to ignore is government, they are both very conservative and very unwilling, despite their rhetoric, to give something new that doesn't have a major player behind it a chance. I once did a tender proposal that was priced at half the winning bid, it was thought too risky an approach to consider. I'd have another go with Apache Isis but only if the application was a very good fit for Apache Isis and those are only likely to be Federal projects out of Canberra. I have to be honest and say at 55 my energy to go looking there is not very high but does seem to me that government projects are often going to be good ones for Apache Isis (maybe if I find one here I can call on a pool of talent overseas?) The other scenario that seems to make sense is for a small software house to use Apache Isis as the basis of a system that is sold, as I understand, the way its been used by Oscar Bou's group. So this approach is not based on selling Apache Isis features, but on me leveraging them to advantage in supplying a service to my potential clients. I just tend to say I use Java because I can utilise some good open-source frameworks as a base or incorporate libraries in when needed. Thinking about marketing to technical audience, a name change would still be worthwhile, and of those listed from the gathering I tend to like Apache Tailor most as it reflects the custom-made or 'tailor-made' strengths of Apache Isis well (a nice icon could be produced from it too). [I am relaxed about the new name - but - In the notes there is a reference to jazz, might be an in joke but a famous (and very individualistic) jazz guitarist by the name of Allan Holdsworth [1][2] died recently, Apache Holdsworth has a nice ring and there would be connection to that other popular generated UI Python framework]. The main issue is how to make more developers aware of Apache Isis I think. Marketing is still needed for this and targeted advertising is one way to do this I feel. If you cannot afford advertising some kind of a publicity stunt is an alternative, anyone volunteering? Another idea is simply to look at the already good documentation and think of ways to use that resource in other "look what I do" showing off ways. The videos that Dan has done are good, maybe that is the answer for others could make quality videos linked to sections of the documentation. Steve [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSqz17gtv8U [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXSd-WyrtfA On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Dan Haywood <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi folks, > > I've just gone through the photo attachments on the IsisCon write-up [1] > and transcribed them into text; a little bit easier for others to consume. > > For those who were there, it would be great if you could flesh out those > bullet-points with your own recollections of discussion points that were > made that were not written down on the whiteboards. I've added one or two > points of my own along the way. > > Cheers > Dan > > > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ISIS/IsisCon2017+write-up >
