I'm not Martynas, so you didn't misname anyone that I saw.

JSON-LD can certainly help with this: any time you have JSON, and you wish it 
were RDF, JSON-LD is there for you! Whether it's the best choice, only you can 
say. Keep in mind that JSON-LD contexts can take JSON and create triples (or 
even quads) from properties. That's it. It cannot create triples that aren't 
translated directly from a property (except for rdf:type triples, which are a 
bit weird). It cannot transform data values.

You might end up with a two-stage process, in which you first mung your JSON 
(as JSON) as need be to clean the data, and then apply a context and let Jena 
read the RDF directly. If the data is already in a form that is close to what 
you need, the first phase might be short or absent. If the data is wacky, the 
gains from introducing JSON-LD might be very small.

ajs6f

> On Nov 29, 2018, at 8:27 AM, Marco Neumann <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> good to know that we are on the same page here Adam. With regards to json
> let's limit the scope of the discussion here to the Jena project for now. I
> am not looking at an alternative to JSON-LD, correct my if I am wrong but
> as far as my limited understanding of JSON-LD goes it is a way to
> store/serialize RDF like data in a json format. while my use case would be
> a customer that presents any data in json and wants me to read this into a
> sparql endpoint for further inspection (with bnodes for arrays, warts and
> all). Currently I have to programmatically write transformations to allow
> me to read the data into a Jena store. Can JSON-LD already help me with
> this task?
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:47 PM ajs6f <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> I agree _very heartily_ with the caution that Andy and Marco are
>> expressing. I've been following the conversation on [email protected]
>> and I have yet to hear anything that seems very useful or practical to me.
>> 
>> That having been said, and speaking very much as a member of W3C's JSON-LD
>> Working Group, I'm also not ecstatic about setting up an alternative to
>> JSON-LD. Perhaps you could say a little about why it's not a good choice
>> for data access? I would hope that you would be able to equip your generic
>> JSON with a JSON-LD context and roll on without any special new Jena
>> tooling needed... is that not possible (or optimal) for some reason? If
>> it's related to Jena, we can talk about it here, and if it's related to
>> JSON-LD, I'd be very happy to take your concern to the WG.
>> 
>> ajs6f
>> 
>>> On Nov 29, 2018, at 7:40 AM, Marco Neumann <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree Andy, there is no need to rush things here and break the API.
>> Maybe
>>> we could provide an in memory model for "Generalized RDF" as sandbox for
>>> people to play with. But what I'd like to see are more bridges to the
>> json
>>> community as it has become the defacto lingua franca for data exchange on
>>> the web now.
>>> 
>>> In particular with regards to generic json rather than json-ld. possibly
>> a
>>> generic mapping to a json dataset assembler could work for data access
>> and
>>> transformation. has anybody done anything here already?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 2:11 PM Andy Seaborne <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Internally, that means Graph/Node/Triple and the ARQ engine, Jena really
>>>> works on what is called  "Generalized RDF" in RDF 1.1 - so literals as
>>>> subjects, literals as predicates blank nodes as predicates - work just
>>>> fine.  Whether they are a good idea is a different question.
>>>> 
>>>> RDF* works as well (in-memory graphs). Jena has Node_Triple and
>>>> Node_Graph nowadays for completeness.
>>>> 
>>>> If we get into structured values (lists not encoded in triples,
>>>> sets/bags as datastructures - and these are things property graphs and
>>>> traditionally SQL also find it hard to handle), there would be work to
>>>> do, but it's not impossible.
>>>> 
>>>> The impact is on the Model API is where the impact is.
>>>> 
>>>> Personal opinion about changing the core specs:
>>>> 
>>>> Being "better"isn't enough.  There is lots of investment in people's
>>>> time and energy has gone in to learning about RDF and communicating
>>>> about RDF.
>>>> 
>>>> The impact is when new data meets old apps but also existing
>>>> thinking/learning/blogs/books/...
>>>> 
>>>> Changes to the basics need to meet a higher barrier than "better".
>>>> 
>>>>    Andy
>>>> 
>>>> On 22/11/2018 13:13, Marco Neumann wrote:
>>>>> are we prepared in Jena for such a move on the RDF syntax?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>> From: Tim Berners-Lee <[email protected]>
>>>>> Date: Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 1:05 PM
>>>>> Subject: ✅ Literals as subjects Re: Toward easier RDF: a proposal
>>>>> To: David Booth <[email protected]>
>>>>> Cc: SW-forum Web <[email protected]>, Dan Brickley <
>> [email protected]
>>>>> ,
>>>>> Sean B. Palmer <[email protected]>, Olaf Hartig <[email protected]
>>> ,
>>>>> Axel Polleres <[email protected]>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 2018-11 -21, at 22:40, David Booth <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 7. Literals as subjects.  RDF should allow "anyone to say
>>>>> anything about anything", but RDF does not currently allow
>>>>> literals as subjects!  (One work-around is to use -- you guessed
>>>>> it -- a blank node, which in turn is asserted to be owl:sameAs
>>>>> the literal.)  This deficiency may seem unimportant relative
>>>>> to other RDF difficulties, but it is a peculiar anomaly that
>>>>> may have greater impact than we realize.  Imagine an *average*
>>>>> developer, new to RDF, who unknowingly violates this rule and
>>>>> is puzzled when it doesn't work.  Negative experiences like
>>>>> that drive people away.  Even more insidiously, imagine this
>>>>> developer tries to CONSTRUCT triples using a SPARQL query,
>>>>> and some of those triples happen to have literals in the
>>>>> subject position.  Per the SPARQL standard, those triples will
>>>>> be silently eliminated from the results,[13] which could lead
>>>>> to silently producing wrong answers from the application --
>>>>> the worst of all possible bugs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Agreed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I thought we had fixed that in some later spec but I guess not.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All code I have written, like cwm and rdflib.js, allows the same things
>>>> in
>>>>> subject and object positions.  Life is too short for arbitrary
>>>> unnecessary
>>>>> asymmetry.
>>>>> 
>>>>> timbl
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Marco Neumann
>>> KONA
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> ---
> Marco Neumann
> KONA

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