On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 10:19, Wolfgang Pfeiffer <r...@gmx.net> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 01, 2020 at 10:48:26PM -0500, John Mellor wrote: > >On 2019-12-30 5:52 p.m., Chris Murphy wrote: > >>On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 8:02 AM John Mellor <john.mel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>I've complained about this issue before. Its a defective design > >>decision made by the Gnome people, some of whom I suspect to be > >>ex-Windows people trying to sabotage the desktop ;^0 > >>https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > >> > >>Your email is 1) inconsiderate, specifically it is vapid and without > >>thought. It's not rational. It's not factual. 2) it is not respectful, > >>specifically it's transparently an intent to evoke an emotional > >>response by using "Windows" and "sabotage" as insults. You are > >>accusing people you do not know, have no evidence of, of willfully, > >>intentionally, destroying your experience and the experience of > >>others. > > >Thank you for providing a link to the CofC document. I may have been > >misinterpreted in my attempt at humour (note the emoji in the > >context), and will therefore refrain from such in the presence of a > >few people with sore funnybones > > Supported. In other times I tried humour in Linux places - but chances > are good it won't often be understood as such any more. Not with even a > thousand smileys ... > It is important to realize that a large number of linux users are not native English speakers. Many of these users will have difficulties recognizing and understanding humorous posts. > > > Apologies. > > > >However, I believe that you have completely missed the point of the > >threads. If Gnome (for example) is not API-safe and failures may > >occur when upgrading its components and/or apps, then a suitable > >workaround would possibly be to install only those app updates over a > >reboot, and allow the other packages to be updated normally and > >without requiring a reboot. > > If I can manage my system with a CLI, I try it. Instead of using > some GUI. > > With a gui you normally have an extra chance of failure - so removing > the chance, by avoiding it, is my effort to get the job done as fast and > safe as possible. Keep it simple. If you don't need the extra layer > of a GUI (Gnome or others): why use it? So even for an upgrade I use > the command line on a TTY, with a mostly shut-down X. Works nearly > flawlessly on Fedora since around three years .. > [...] > But don't forget this: the whole idea behind these reboots and offline > updates, and its implementation, seems to allow a typical Fedora user, > without too much knowledge about the system, to upgrade their system > with minimal effort and minimized risk. Meaning more users are > getting enabled to run the system. And the stats, as quoted by > R. Hughes earlier, seem to confirm they're right with this approach. > All linux users benefit from reductions in the problems encountered by new users. Not only are new users more likely to stick with linux, but demands (on a per user basis) on developer and support resources are reduced. > > My favorite part in this whole thread, because I think it's honest, > and important: > > Richard Hughes: > "The Unix that you think you are using does not exist any more, I'm > sorry to say." > > Basically with Linux in 2020 one neither has a very UNIX-like system, > nor is it Windows: it's just a modern Linux, some sort of hybrid of > both a more UNIX-like Linux and Windows, produced as a multi-billion > dollar industry product. And I have doubts it's "defective". It's > different, and its target consumers seem to be quite different from > those in its early days. > > To drive the point with the industry-designed Linux home: Remember > that around 2017 the Linux kernel alone had > "1,670 first-time [!] developers over the course of just under 13 > months. Remember that 4,319 developers overall contributed to the > kernel during this time". (Quoted from the Linux Kernel Report 2017) > And only 8.2% did their work on the kernel unpaid (again: see Linux > Kernel Report 2017). > > This simply means: the old nerd tool and UNIX-like Linux is pretty > much gone. And to answer the question in the subject line: Yes, there > are aspects in a modern Fedora that are more Windows-like than the old > Linux. And no: I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. > > So if people really want a UNIX-like system, then, sorry, they need > something else - and there are still options out there for that. > > Regards, > Wolfgang > -- George N. White III
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