On Mon, 4 Dec 2006, Paul Mason wrote: > > > > ...I guess it got edited out during an earlier reply; > > Actually I'm missing your original post - not sure why. >
-shrug- > Try TERM_INGRES=vt100fnl - I just tried that on Fedora Core 6 and it > works fine. All the keys are from the keypad with PF1-PF4 being the > top line (Numlock etc) Just tried it; no luck. -big-frown- * and - on the keypad go to the top, and not-quite-bottom, if that means anything... I can't imagine what's so unique about this setup. It's an older Red Hat installation - no idea what, actually. Probably 7.2 or some such. ...We're usually of the school; if it's not messed up, don't mess with it. I was thinking perhaps it might be the character encoding. The term is en_US.UTF-8. Perhaps you can tell me if that's what your system uses, too. ...Ya know, I just flashed on something; I recall that Linux (Red Hat at least) is phaising out termcap, so I really noticed the termcap file provided in the Ingres tree ($II_SYSTEM/ingres/files/termcap) and I'm wondering if maybe I'm supposed to put this in some kind of path or location in the system, etc. Hmmm... Ideas on that? What is the file provided in the Ingres distribution for? How is it pointed at so it's used? Which brings up the question: What's Ingres got planned for the elimination of termcap? (I think it's replaced by something like curses or ncurses, or some such - don't know _anything_ about it except what I just wrote.) > If you're connecting from Windows I'd recommend putty > (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/). Putty and vt100f > works well. That was recommended. Haven't got it installed on my laptop at the moment, but it's here somewhere. It's one of the free ssh packages our company provides to employees so they can get access from home, etc. I'll try it sometime soon. However, this isn't a great solution because it means I/we have to always use a Windows box to get to Ingres and that just seems particularly annoying. > > ...Somehow I just can't > > believe that there's no good solution "out of the box" - and if there > > isn't, then one needs to be added ASAP. This _is_ supposed to be an Open > > Source project, right? > > > > On the one hand I think there is a solution "out of the box" in that > it's pretty easy to find (and not too to hard to create) a termcap > entry that'll work for whatever you're using. On the other hand we > don't make it easy for you to find out how to do it. That's one reason > I wrote that document. I think that's great - that you wrote up a document. And I think we need a community repository for such things. (HELLO Ingres Corporation! Are You Listening?!) > Whilst I'm not defending that I think I know why it happened. Back in > the day, when Ingres forms system was written, people were using > actual terminals and it wasn't that much to expect that people know > what their actual hardware was and set an environment variable > accordingly. Then later we had PCs and terminal emulators but most > people still remembered enough to know what was going on. In any case > it's on of those things you set up and then forget about. I think that's what happened to me; TERM_INGRES was something in the background noise of my daily work and I hardly ever thought about it. Also, at the time, we didn't have configure by forms - we edited the files directly - so I managed to avoid most of the schloky forms based stuff. Never liked it much and NEVER wrote anything using it. ...I'd _prefer_ editing the files, by the way. Will this work with Ingres today - or does anyone know?! -smile- > Then what started to happen was a focus on GUI tools. So we got Visual > DBA and Visual Manager and so on. There was a general feeling that you > didn't want someone's first experience to be character based tools. > They looked and felt out of date. (Except to those of us happily using > them but we were generally old hands who knew how to set up things.) > So I think putting "how to set up TERM_INGRES" into the Getting > Started Guide would have been not the done thing at that point. Forgive my bluntness, but that's called stupidity and is part of why Ingres Corp didn't beat Oracle. One shouldn't confuse marketing materials with technical manuals. The customer has already bought the software by the time they get the manual. It's far better that they get on with it quickly and successfully rather than worry about saving face after the sale. ...BTW, this was why I created "Installation Assurance" (boss named it - I always hated the name) wherein we flew onsite and installed the product, gave training and ensured they had a production-ready installation so they didn't get into trouble a few months later when serious quantities of data and heavy workloads were first encountered... > Then Linux started to become popular and a version of Ingres was > released for it. Which worked fine if you connected using one of the > terminal emulators that had always worked. If not then there were some > instructions in the Release Notes, but not the GSG for reasons > mentioned above. You see, up until that point the character based > stuff hadn't changed for years - because no-one was logging on > directly to unix hardware any more. There are countless scores of people who _only_ log in via ssh, like us! > Anyway - there are reasons why we got where we are today - not that > that necessarily makes things any better. As for "it's an open source > project right?" well that's a whole different discussion and one I'm > not going to get into now. Well, right. I'm concerned about this; I want Ingres Corporation V 2.0 to "get it" but if they don't, they can't stop us from creating our own community. And we should take the lead if they won't. My company has _some_ bandwidth and wouldn't mind putting up a web page or two... Heck, I bet we could even use a database to drive it! -grin- ...Anyway, thanks for the help. What I _really_ need help with, though, is getting connected with JDBC and it just isn't happening. Look for my other post on the subject - maybe I should re-post it... Thanks again for your reply, Richard -- Richard Troy, Chief Scientist Science Tools Corporation 510-924-1363 or 202-747-1263 [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://ScienceTools.com/ _______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@lists.ingres.com http://lists.ingres.com/mailman/listinfo/users
