Lost battle imo. Not sure there's a way to describe the difference between maven and gradle in a way everyone would agree on... Le 7 janv. 2014 03:42, "Ron Wheeler" <rwhee...@artifact-software.com> a écrit :
> I am not sure that you want to start a range war in the opening paragraph. > If there is a concise second or third sentence that clearly explains the > difference between Ant and Maven, it would be a great idea to add that. > If Gradle is likely to be in the running for a new developer, it might be > interesting to have a sentence explaining the difference. Need to be > careful not to turn off a new person by an obscure argument that does not > address the decision points in a way that a new person would understand. > > Ron > > On 06/01/2014 4:33 PM, Stephen Connolly wrote: > >> I don't want a religious war. If Gradle or ANT are a better fit for the >> way >> some people think about building software... well good for them... and the >> faster we can help them realise that Maven takes a different tack the >> better. >> >> I happen to believe that the power of Maven comes from being model driven >> rather than procedural, which ultimately allows for a richer IDE >> experience, but consequently you lose some flexibility in your build >> process. It is a tradeoff I happen to like the Maven balance of, but I am >> not so arrogant to presume that Maven's balance suits everyone. >> >> The Maven repository has grown beyond just Maven, so that is no longer a >> key differentiator for Maven. >> >> The differentiator is in the declarative build rather than procedural >> build... >> >> With Ant you have a mostly pure procedural build. >> >> With Maven you have a mostly pure declarative build. >> >> With Gradle you have a hodge-podge mix of both. >> >> (By declarative, I mean <packaging>jar</packaging> is all I need to >> declare, maven knows how everything fits into that) >> >> So let's let others go to the tools that suit their tastes, and the faster >> that we help them there, the less bitching about how "Maven is crap >> (because it doesn't suit my taste)" we will hear. >> >> It's like marmite: you either love it or hate it! >> >> >> On 6 January 2014 20:08, Russell Gold <russell.g...@oracle.com> wrote: >> >> Several sentences sounds good. But here’s another question. Comparing >>> Maven to ant is almost too easy in terms of advantages. Is gradle now a >>> serious competitor (I had been working on converting an enormous project >>> to >>> maven, but the architect decided to switch to gradle, so I am >>> particularly >>> sensitive to the issue). I can see some superficial advantages of gradle >>> that might appeal to some projects. Is it better to ignore or address >>> this? >>> >>> On Jan 6, 2014, at 3:02 PM, Stephen Connolly < >>> stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Monday, 6 January 2014, Ron Wheeler wrote: >>>> >>>> I think that the target has to be people deciding whether to try Maven. >>>>> They initially want to know what it does and why it is better than Ant >>>>> >>>> or >>> >>>> whatever they are using now. >>>>> >>>>> Trying to teach Maven in a single sentence is too much to ask. >>>>> >>>>> "Maven is a build tool which consumes and produces artifacts managed in >>>>> >>>> a >>> >>>> repository." doesn't sound like it will help build my application. >>>>> At the start, one doesn't have any artifacts or own a repository. >>>>> >>>>> "Apache Maven is a convention-over-configuration build tool which has >>>>> great dependency management features." >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think we should hint at the descriptive philosophy rather than the >>>> procedural philosophy most tools take >>>> >>>> >>>> is pretty clear for a single sentence description and it true. >>>>> Maybe we can come up with a follow-up sentence to amplify/explain this >>>>> >>>> one. >>> >>>> Most programmers or project managers should be able to find the time to >>>>> read 2 or maybe 3 sentences before deciding on a build tool. >>>>> As long as each sentence draws the person deeper into Maven, that would >>>>> work. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes that is the idea >>>> >>>> >>>> Ron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 06/01/2014 12:57 PM, Russell Gold wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Of course, you could say that about Gradle, too. And ant now does have >>>>>> the ability to use those dependency features. >>>>>> >>>>>> I went through this when creating my video course (not in the sig >>>>>> >>>>> because >>> >>>> this is work email). It’s not clear to me that you can make a one >>>>>> >>>>> sentence >>> >>>> description that will provide sufficiently useful information unless >>>>>> something like: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Maven is a build tool which consumes and produces artifacts managed >>>>>> >>>>> in a >>> >>>> repository." >>>>>> >>>>>> But that is not going to help people coming new to the project. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I am missing the motivation here.Is the target for this >>>>>> description people deciding whether to try Maven? People trying to >>>>>> >>>>> learn >>> >>>> how to use it? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:43 PM, Lyons, Roy <roy.ly...@cmegroup.com> >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>> >>>> on https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/New+Main+Site it >>>>>> >>>>>>> says: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We need a short and snappy description of what Maven is: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Apache Maven is a software project management and comprehension >>>>>>> >>>>>> tool." >>> >>>> Is just not an easy to understand description of what Maven is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to submit my short description for review. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Apache Maven is a convention-over-configuration build tool which has >>>>>>> great dependency management features." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know that it does more than that - but I feel that at its core, >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> is what it really is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> --------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > > -- > Ron Wheeler > President > Artifact Software Inc > email: rwhee...@artifact-software.com > skype: ronaldmwheeler > phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@maven.apache.org > >
