On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 15:47 +0100, Stephane Nicoll wrote:
> Jason,
>
> Can you add maven dev guys to this page?
It's simply wide open now. You should be able to edit at will.
> Thanks,
> Stéphane
>
> On 11/12/05, Emmanuel Venisse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Jason,
> >
> > I can't view it, I obtain " You do not have permission to view this page."
> >
> > Emmanuel
> >
> > Jason van Zyl a écrit :
> > > On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 12:17 +0100, Alexander Hars wrote:
> > >
> > >>Jason,
> > >>
> > >>Thank you for setting up the mavenusers space on confluence. While this
> > >>solution is certainly better for integrating the documentation with
> > >>Maven, it has the disadvantage that it significantly raises the bar for
> > >>anyone who wants to contribute.
> > >
> > >
> > > How so?
> > >
> > > You simply have to sign up?
> > >
> > >
> > >>For example, unregistered users can't see its content,
> > >
> > >
> > > Fixed. Now anyone can see the content. That was a mistake in me setting
> > > it up.
> > >
> > >
> > >> so they will not
> > >>be drawn to improve on the documentation in the confluence wiki. In
> > >>addition, anyone wishing to make a small contribution, will need to
> > >>register, then send you an email, wait for the confirmation -- which
> > >>will come quickly, I know, but will not be immediate. Most users will
> > >>not bother.
> > >
> > >
> > > That doesn't mean they can't start writing the doco. They don't have to
> > > wait for access to begin writing. But point taken. I will assume that
> > > the space will not be abused. The permissions are now wide open and
> > > anyone can add/edit/view content.
> > >
> > >
> > >>Let me give a few examples of possible user contributions that would not
> > >>make it into a registered-users-only wiki:
> > >>1. Someone asked in the mailing lists about which archetypes are
> > >>available by default with maven. Brett answered that by providing a
> > >>useful link to ibiblio.
> > >>I thought that this would be useful information for me, followed the
> > >>link and made a mental note to check back the mailing list when I need
> > >>this info sometimes in the future. When we started the discussion on the
> > >>wiki, I just went to the wiki, added three or four lines for the
> > >>archetypes I had found when following the link. Now I know, where to
> > >>find it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Should be fixed with the permissions change.
> > >
> > >
> > >>2. I was looking through the guide to creating sites. There is a link
> > >>to a description ("A full reference of the APT Format is available").
> > >>The link is dead.
> > >>Of course I looked around a little more and found the full guide to the
> > >>apt format. Of course I didn't bother sending this information to the
> > >>mailing list. It looks like nit-picking but a wiki page would be ideal
> > >>to put this information.
> > >
> > >
> > > Possibly but a link checker would work better. Technical problems with
> > > the site we should be able to catch. The main site is not going to be
> > > opened wide for anonymous editing, we just can't do that.
> > >
> > >
> > >>3. Yesterday Wendy Smoak noted in the mailing list that the guide for
> > >>creating archetypes states that the <id> tag for the archetype.xml
> > >>should be the same as the <artifactId> but that this is not the case for
> > >>one of the plugins he used so the statement must be incorrect. It is
> > >>very unlikely that an observation like this will be caught if we don't
> > >>let the user who observes it contribute it easily.
> > >
> > >
> > > For this type of editing of existing work we can't let anonymous users
> > > edit the content. It's just not something we can do right now. The
> > > documentation that goes into the main site has to go through some
> > > vetting and process. That doesn't mean we can't try to do something to
> > > make this easier like create a plugin that automatically creates a patch
> > > and creates an issue and attaches the patch.
> > >
> > > I have been here for 5 years and it is nice to think that lots of users
> > > will contribute but that is generally not the case. It is 5-10 dedicated
> > > users who contribute much of the secondary documentation. That is
> > > certainly the case here.
> > >
> > >
> > >>I know that you have worked hard at the documentation for Maven. But
> > >>Maven is huge and complex.
> > >
> > >
> > > Then I guess we're not doing something right! :-)
> > >
> > >
> > >>It is very difficult to put everything that
> > >>users need into writing. And it is probably difficult for any
> > >>experienced maven user - let alone developer - to understand how hard it
> > >>is to learn Maven.
> > >
> > >
> > > Fair enough. I think we understand these things.
> > >
> > >
> > >>In the past few weeks I have more than once regretted starting with
> > >>Maven. It is a great tool, but whatever I start with, I find that it is
> > >>so difficult to answer the basic questions that arise for the newbie.
> > >>And I know that I am not the only one. It should not be like that
> > >>(please don't take this as a criticism of the developers, I just think
> > >>that there must be better ways to involve all of us in augmenting the
> > >>documentation).
> > >
> > >
> > > Absolutely but it has to be balanced with the process that we have for
> > > creating the documentation. We use APT and Confluence for everything and
> > > there simply won't be wide open access to the main body of
> > > documentation. But
> > >
> > > 1) The Maven User space can be wide open for any sort of contribution
> > > and if in Confluence format we have a chance of processing it along with
> > > the rest of doco we have in Confluence.
> > >
> > > 2) If a particular user submits enough doco we consider giving them
> > > commit access to the documentation.
> > >
> > >
> > >>Would you see a big problem if we started a trial with the Wiki? There
> > >>is not much that we can loose.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm all for it but use Confluence. The problem is always a matter of
> > > integration but I'll work with anyone who wants to work on the process.
> > >
> > >
> > >>If nobody contributes or it really gets
> > >>defaced all the time, we just stop. We don't loose anything. On the
> > >>other hand, maybe we really get some users involved who submit snippets
> > >>of insights and we reduce the learning curve.
> > >>
> > >>Would you really object if we wanted to launch a trial balloon for
> > >>linking Maven documentation with the wiki?
> > >
> > >
> > > Go for it, just push it all into the Maven User space in Confluence it
> > > should be wide open now.
> > >
> > >
> > >>- Alexander
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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> > >>
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
> --
> .::You're welcome ::.
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason at maven.org
http://maven.apache.org
you are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in.
No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow.
They know it is going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically
dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of
dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or
goals are in doubt.
-- Robert Pirzig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
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