Just one more thing I dislike about system dependencies I wanted to
specify. A good practice is usually to do a complete project check out
after a check in. Takes a lot of times when you have several jars
bundled with your projects.
On 4/24/06, Alexandre Poitras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 4/24/06, Simon Kitching <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I agree with much of what Brandon is saying.
> >
> > For *open source* projects, Maven's repository is really useful; the
> > minor inconveniences are worth living with. In particular, such projects
> > need to conserve disk space and network bandwidth; checking in jars for
> > each project is therefore a bad idea. Brandon: imagine if Apache
> > projects used the "check jars in with project" approach; the disk space
> > needed would multiply 100-fold, with the same jar checked in multiple
> > times under different projects. It also means that those files are all
> > downloaded from the apache site, not ibiblio. And it means that users
> > (who may be on dialup connections) end up downloading the same jars
> > multiple times even when they already have those jars on their local PC.
> >
> > For *internal* projects, however, having local jars can be very useful.
> > Bandwidth is less of an issue; simplicity and reproducable builds are
> > more important. And as several people have noted on this list (and I've
> > found from experience too) preventing maven from fetching stuff from
> > repositories beyond your control is currently *really hard*.
> >
>
> Have you ever used the dependency exclude element? Or run Maven using
> the offline switch ("-o")?
>
> > I think it would be really nice if repositories could have a
> > <remote>false</remote> tag; a "non-remote" repo (using any access
> > protocol) would be used when offline mode is used. People could then
> > check a complete maven repository into their project if they wish, and
> > use a repository declaration with url "file://...", remote set to false,
> > and offline set to true.
>
> This is already doable "mvn -o". You just don't get the jar bundled
> with your project. This is the assembly plugin job. But I really don't
> get what you are trying to achieve. What is the difference between a
> internal corporation Maven repository and a internal corporation SVN
> repository setup on the same server? Nothing except Maven repository
> is better at handling dependencies then SVN.
>
> > This wouldn't be recommended for sites that
> > host large numbers of projects, as disk-space and bandwidth issues would
> > cause problems, but it's then easy to set up self-contained builds for
> > smaller sites. It's not *quite* as simple to use as simply checking in a
> > directory of jars and pointing to that dir, but it's close - while still
> > supporting much of maven's standard dependency support. Hmm..could the
> > same effect be achieved by checking in an "settings.xml" with
> > localRepository pointing to a checked-in dir, and running maven with
> > "mvn -s ./settings.xml"?
> >
> > Brandon: Note that when using <scope>system</scope>, transitive
> > dependencies aren't supported. It's really meant only for pointing at
> > files like "rt.jar" from a locally-installed jdk. That doesn't mean you
> > can't use it for the purpose you want, but that's not its intent.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Simon
> >
> > On Mon, 2006-04-24 at 16:13 -0600, Brandon Goodin wrote:
> > > Hey Wayne, I'm sorry if my email tone sounds aggressive... i really am
> > > not trying to come off that way. So please accept my comments purely
> > > as an exercise in conversation.
> > >
> > > I totally understand the intellectual property that rights that Sun
> > > attaches to their jars. I fully respect them. I'm just trying to
> > > understand why so much emphasis is placed on the centralized jar repo.
> > > There were plenty of other concerns besides the sun jars that i cited.
> > > I'm just speaking more from my needs. The repo is cool. But, I see an
> > > equally acceptable approach of having jars that you check into your
> > > source code repo. I guess I'm trying more to understand why there is
> > > such an emphasis on central repo over simply presenting the ability to
> > > use either/or.
> > >
> > > As an additional note, the centralized repo is only as good as those
> > > willing to post to it. I've run into the problem that the latest and
> > > greatest are not always on ibiblio. I've also ran into the problem
> > > that there are sometimes version gaps. Also, I've seen where there are
> > > the same jars under different (but similar) group ids. I know i can
> > > setup a local repo for jars. But, then i find myself wondering why.
> > > Especially when i already have a versioning repository... SVN.
> > >
> > > Many thanks for your time and responses,
> > > Brandon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 4/24/06, Wayne Fay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > That should be "Checking Sun Jars into your SVN repo". Obviously
> > > > anyone is allowed to download the Sun Jars and install them into their
> > > > own local Maven repo, or anything else permitted under the Sun BCL
> > > > terms.
> > > >
> > > > Checking the jars into a publicly available distribution service ie
> > > > Sourceforge CVS/SVN etc is unfortunately not allowed by Sun's
> > > > licensing.
> > > >
> > > > You can go to Sun.com and read the specifics of the BCL if you want,
> > > > to see what specifically is permitted and what is not.
> > > >
> > > > Wayne
> > > >
> > > > On 4/24/06, Wayne Fay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Checking Sun Jars into your repo is a violation of the Sun Binary
> > > > > Compatibility License which you agreed to when you downloaded the
> > > > > file. (Assuming the file was downloaded from Sun under the Sun BCL
> > > > > terms, which most files on Sun.com require you to accept prior to
> > > > > downloading.)
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt Sun will chase you down and prosecute you, but realize that
> > > > > some of us actually care about respecting intellectual property and
> > > > > license requirements. Complaining about the way these Sun Jars are
> > > > > handled to the Maven User list is really the wrong place -- complain
> > > > > directly to Sun, ask them to modify the distribution terms of their
> > > > > licenses, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wayne
> > > > >
> > > > > On 4/24/06, Brandon Goodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > "tons of advantages" - please quantify this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, I find the repository to be a "nice" piece of Maven.
> > > > > > But,
> > > > > > I don't see it as a cardinal sin to actually distribute libraries in
> > > > > > your project. If you follow the libary naming convention then who
> > > > > > cares?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, what i find annoying are the copious additional,
> > > > > > needless,
> > > > > > and redundant dependencies that i have to download because of the
> > > > > > dependencies defined in the pom of a jar that i need to download. I
> > > > > > also find it annoying to have to manually install several small
> > > > > > libraries to my local repo cuz i can't distribute them as a result
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > licensing. It is additionally annoying to have to setup a jar
> > > > > > repository that will be used for jars that will be needed that can
> > > > > > only be distributed privately. All of this... vs. me just
> > > > > > referencing
> > > > > > them in my source tree?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like Maven a lot and really enjoy the standard project layout
> > > > > > features and plugins that are provided. But, the jar repository has
> > > > > > caused me more time and less efficiency. However, i do like ibiblio
> > > > > > for a single one stop shop for grabbing jars i need... to drop in my
> > > > > > source tree ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like it when people can check out my source from SVN and simply
> > > > > > build. This is possible when i place them in SVN. Heck, I can even
> > > > > > check Sun Jars into my SVN repo! ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks to everyone for pointing me in the direction of the system.
> > > > > > I'll be using it. I'm always open to a compelling argument and a tap
> > > > > > on the forehead that helps me to see the light.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many Thanks,
> > > > > > Brandon
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 4/24/06, Alexandre Poitras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > Well you can use *system* dependencies but you loose tons of
> > > > > > > advantages. Instead, maybe you should just populate your local
> > > > > > > repository using the install plugin and -o to run mvn offline.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 4/24/06, Brandon Goodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Is it a requirement that i use the remote repository for jars?
> > > > > > > > Is
> > > > > > > > there a way to reference jars that are distributed with the
> > > > > > > > code when
> > > > > > > > checked out from the code repository?
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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