I opened NetBeans 7.2, clean-and-build, started TomEE, undeployed the previous WAR/application, and then dropped my TomEE/CDI WAR file in TomEE /webapps folder, today, and you're right, I don't have to 'stop TomEE'.
I already knew that I didn't have to stop TomEE, but I think it's nice not having to stop TomEE when deploying/testing new WAR/application version. Honestly, I'm not so concerned or interested in the delete-localhost-file/folder option. Thanks anyway. Also, I prefer 'not' to use NetBeans 7.3 beta anymore until I know deploy issues are 'fixed'. NetBeans 7.2 is definitely the stable version even though I often get out-of-memory errors, since I have big/huge class files. I know, I know, not a good thing. :) On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:28 AM, José Luis Cetina <maxtorz...@gmail.com>wrote: > Try this. When you have that error try to remove the localhost folder in > tomee/Conf (there you can the localhost folder and inside of it you will > see an xml file with the name of your app or if you preffer only remove the > xml file) you dont have to stop tomee. > > Try and share your results. > El dic 4, 2012 6:26 AM, "José Luis Cetina" <maxtorz...@gmail.com> > escribió: > > > Try this. When you have that error try to remove the localhost folder in > > tomee/Conf (there you can the localhost folder and inside of it you will > > see and xml file with the name of your app or if you preffer only remove > > the xml file) you dont have to stop tomee. > > > > Try and share your results. > > El dic 4, 2012 1:16 AM, "Romain Manni-Bucau" <rmannibu...@gmail.com> > > escribió: > > > >> Yep, you cant respect it with drop in war approach (that s documented on > >> tomcat website iirc) > >> Le 4 déc. 2012 08:14, "Howard W. Smith, Jr." <smithh032...@gmail.com> a > >> écrit : > >> > >> > Here is my META-INF/context.xml; I think this was created by NetBeans > >> when > >> > I started deploying WAR to NetBeans some time ago. > >> > > >> > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> > >> > <Context antiJARLocking="true" path=""/> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau < > >> rmannibu...@gmail.com > >> > >wrote: > >> > > >> > > Note: not sure why it was chosen but depending how you deploy > >> sometimes > >> > > tomcat ignores context.xml path > >> > > > >> > > Think that s the issue you got > >> > > Le 4 déc. 2012 01:47, "Howard W. Smith, Jr." < > smithh032...@gmail.com> > >> a > >> > > écrit : > >> > > > >> > > > Add the following to my notes: > >> > > > > >> > > > LESSON LEARNED: build WAR, rename to mcmsweb.war (since *app name > = > >> > > > mcms_tomee* in NetBeans), and drop WAR in tomee /webapps folder; > if > >> > > > deployed to Glassfish via NetBeans, MUST close NetBeans, reopen > >> > NetBeans, > >> > > > drop WAR in tomee /webapps folder, and start TomEE via tomcat7 > >> Windows > >> > > > Service OR NetBeans > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. < > >> > > > smithh032...@gmail.com > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > Okay, I deleted tomee folder and reinstalled latest version of > >> TomEE > >> > > > 1.5.1 > >> > > > > SNAPSHOT, dropped mcms.war in tomee /webapps, and after > >> duplicating > >> > the > >> > > > PDL > >> > > > > error, I decided to enter the following URL: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > http://localhost:8080/mcms/login.jsf > >> > > > > > >> > > > > That URL (above) allowed me to login successfully to web app, > even > >> > > though > >> > > > > NetBeans has web app context = mcmsweb. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Prior to the URL above, I 'usually' use the following URL when > >> > testing > >> > > > and > >> > > > > in production: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > http://localhost:8080/mcmsweb/login.jsf > >> > > > > > >> > > > > So, as you said, deploy styles is not a good practice. As I > change > >> > app > >> > > > > names in NetBeans, I need to match the URL with the name of the > >> WAR > >> > > > file. :) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > So, latest SNAPSHOT is working fine. Thanks. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. < > >> > > > > smithh032...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> With latest snapshot, I'm still getting the error below; > provided > >> > > > >> complete stacktrace a few emails ago. > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> Caused by: org.apache.openejb.DuplicateDeploymentIdException: > >> > > > Application > >> > > > >> cannot be deployed as it contains deployment-ids which are in > >> use: > >> > > app: > >> > > > >> C:\apache-tomee-plus-1.5.1-SNAPSHOT\webapps\mcmsweb > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> Since TomEE server log says server startup, I assumed that it > >> > started > >> > > > >> correctly, so I try to access the URL for the web app, and get > >> the > >> > > > >> following error: > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> Dec 03, 2012 7:21:32 PM > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve > >> > > > >> invoke > >> > > > >> SEVERE: Servlet.service() for servlet [Faces Servlet] in > context > >> > with > >> > > > >> path [] threw exception [Cannot find a valid PDL for view id > >> > > > >> /mcmsweb/login.view.xml] with root cause > >> > > > >> javax.faces.FacesException: Cannot find a valid PDL for view id > >> > > > >> /mcmsweb/login.view.xml > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.view.ViewDeclarationLanguageFactoryImpl.getViewDeclarationLanguage(ViewDeclarationLanguageFactoryImpl.java:93) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.application.ViewHandlerImpl.getViewDeclarationLanguage(ViewHandlerImpl.java:179) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > javax.faces.application.ViewHandlerWrapper.getViewDeclarationLanguage(ViewHandlerWrapper.java:134) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > javax.faces.application.ViewHandlerWrapper.getViewDeclarationLanguage(ViewHandlerWrapper.java:134) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared.application.DefaultViewHandlerSupport.checkResourceExists(DefaultViewHandlerSupport.java:525) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared.application.DefaultViewHandlerSupport.handleSuffixMapping(DefaultViewHandlerSupport.java:463) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared.application.DefaultViewHandlerSupport.calculateViewId(DefaultViewHandlerSupport.java:93) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.application.ViewHandlerImpl.deriveLogicalViewId(ViewHandlerImpl.java:118) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > javax.faces.application.ViewHandlerWrapper.deriveLogicalViewId(ViewHandlerWrapper.java:113) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > javax.faces.application.ViewHandlerWrapper.deriveLogicalViewId(ViewHandlerWrapper.java:113) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.lifecycle.RestoreViewExecutor.execute(RestoreViewExecutor.java:157) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.lifecycle.LifecycleImpl.executePhase(LifecycleImpl.java:170) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.myfaces.lifecycle.LifecycleImpl.execute(LifecycleImpl.java:117) > >> > > > >> at > javax.faces.webapp.FacesServlet.service(FacesServlet.java:197) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:305) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:210) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.primefaces.webapp.filter.FileUploadFilter.doFilter(FileUploadFilter.java:79) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:243) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:210) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.omnifaces.filter.GzipResponseFilter.doFilter(GzipResponseFilter.java:148) > >> > > > >> at org.omnifaces.filter.HttpFilter.doFilter(HttpFilter.java:75) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:243) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:210) > >> > > > >> at pf.LoginFilter.doFilter(LoginFilter.java:194) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:243) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:210) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.java:222) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.java:123) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > org.apache.tomee.catalina.OpenEJBValve.invoke(OpenEJBValve.java:45) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.authenticator.AuthenticatorBase.invoke(AuthenticatorBase.java:472) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValve.java:171) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValve.java:99) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.valves.AccessLogValve.invoke(AccessLogValve.java:931) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngineValve.java:118) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.catalina.connector.CoyoteAdapter.service(CoyoteAdapter.java:407) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.coyote.http11.AbstractHttp11Processor.process(AbstractHttp11Processor.java:1004) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.coyote.AbstractProtocol$AbstractConnectionHandler.process(AbstractProtocol.java:589) > >> > > > >> at > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > org.apache.tomcat.util.net.AprEndpoint$SocketProcessor.run(AprEndpoint.java:1822) > >> > > > >> at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor.runWorker(Unknown > >> Source) > >> > > > >> at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(Unknown > >> > Source) > >> > > > >> at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source) > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. < > >> > > > >> smithh032...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >>> I finally saw the error below in the server log; after this > >> error, > >> > > > TomEE > >> > > > >>> automatically undeployed the web app, and shutdown. So I > closed > >> > > > Glassfish > >> > > > >>> and dropped WAR in tomee /webapps folder, and i finally was > >> able to > >> > > > run my > >> > > > >>> app. Please 'note', I reverted to 2012.11.24 version of TomEE > >> 1.5.1 > >> > > > >>> SNAPSHOT. Will try the same or similar steps, next, with > latest > >> > > > version of > >> > > > >>> TomEE 1.5.1 SNAPSHOT. > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> SEVERE: StandardServer.await: create[localhost:8005]: > >> > > > >>> java.net.BindException: Address already in use: JVM_Bind > >> > > > >>> at java.net.DualStackPlainSocketImpl.bind0(Native Method) > >> > > > >>> at > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > java.net.DualStackPlainSocketImpl.socketBind(DualStackPlainSocketImpl.java:96) > >> > > > >>> at > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > >> java.net.AbstractPlainSocketImpl.bind(AbstractPlainSocketImpl.java:376) > >> > > > >>> at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.bind(PlainSocketImpl.java:175) > >> > > > >>> at java.net.ServerSocket.bind(ServerSocket.java:376) > >> > > > >>> at java.net.ServerSocket.<init>(ServerSocket.java:237) > >> > > > >>> at > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > org.apache.catalina.core.StandardServer.await(StandardServer.java:427) > >> > > > >>> at > org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.await(Catalina.java:766) > >> > > > >>> at > >> org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina.start(Catalina.java:712) > >> > > > >>> at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) > >> > > > >>> at > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:57) > >> > > > >>> at > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43) > >> > > > >>> at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:601) > >> > > > >>> at > >> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap.start(Bootstrap.java:322) > >> > > > >>> at > >> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap.main(Bootstrap.java:451) > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. < > >> > > > >>> smithh032...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > >>>> Will let you know, ASAP. Thanks. > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau < > >> > > > >>>> rmannibu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>>> Even with snapshot? > >> > > > >>>>> Le 3 déc. 2012 18:08, "Howard W. Smith, Jr." < > >> > > smithh032...@gmail.com > >> > > > > > >> > > > >>>>> a > >> > > > >>>>> écrit : > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>>> > Forgot one important factor. I just downloaded NetBeans > 7.3 > >> > Beta, > >> > > > >>>>> and I'm > >> > > > >>>>> > having a very similar issue with NetBeans-Glassfish; > >> Glassfish > >> > > > fails > >> > > > >>>>> to > >> > > > >>>>> > start when a netBeans 7.3. beta WAR already has been > >> deployed > >> > to > >> > > > >>>>> Glassfish. > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> > I need to revert to NetBeans 7.2 where I didn't have this > >> > > > >>>>> start-container > >> > > > >>>>> > and deploy-to-container issues. > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. < > >> > > > >>>>> > smithh032...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> > > Okay, noted. > >> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > Interesting, TomEE cannot start my app any more. Even > if I > >> > > > manually > >> > > > >>>>> > delete > >> > > > >>>>> > > the WAR as well as the WAR folder in tomee /webapps > >> folder, > >> > the > >> > > > >>>>> app is > >> > > > >>>>> > > failing to start. > >> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > I guess I will have to delete TomEE folder and reinstall > >> > TomEE; > >> > > > >>>>> might as > >> > > > >>>>> > > well download latest TomEE zip file, too. Right? :) > >> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau < > >> > > > >>>>> > rmannibu...@gmail.com > >> > > > >>>>> > > > wrote: > >> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> the main point is tomee unpack wars > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> so if the war is unpacked when you redeploy the same > war > >> and > >> > > it > >> > > > >>>>> finds > >> > > > >>>>> > >> the unpacked version it will deploy the unpacked one > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> Romain Manni-Bucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> Twitter: @rmannibucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ > >> > > > >>>>> > >> LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> 2012/12/3 Howard W. Smith, Jr. <smithh032...@gmail.com > >: > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > Bad idea to mix deployment styles? > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > Does that mean that I cannot do the following > >> > > interchangeably? > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > 1. deploy WAR to TomEE via Netbeans > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > 2. deploy WAR by dropping WAR in tomee /webapps > folder > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > If the answer is yes, I am pretty sure that i have > been > >> > able > >> > > > to > >> > > > >>>>> do the > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > following with an earlier version of 1.5.1 SNAPSHOT, > >> but I > >> > > > >>>>> could be > >> > > > >>>>> > >> wrong. > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > I often undeploy, but not all the time. > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > Quite frankly, I've been quite impressed with TomEE's > >> > > ability > >> > > > >>>>> to load > >> > > > >>>>> > a > >> > > > >>>>> > >> WAR > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > whether I drop WAR in tomee /webapps 'or' if I deploy > >> from > >> > > > >>>>> NetBeans. > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > When NetBeans deploy to TomEE does not work, I 'help' > >> > TomEE, > >> > > > by > >> > > > >>>>> > >> undeploying > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > the application by manual delete from file folder > >> (Windows > >> > > > >>>>> Explorer), > >> > > > >>>>> > or > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > undeploy app via NetBeans. > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > <rmannibu...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> Hi, > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> if you update the unpacked war it should work > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> or maybe netbeans is hiding sthg > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> in general it is a bad idea to mix deployment styles > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> Romain Manni-Bucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> Twitter: @rmannibucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> Blog: http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/ > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> LinkedIn: http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> Github: https://github.com/rmannibucau > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> 2012/12/3 Howard W. Smith, Jr. < > >> smithh032...@gmail.com>: > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > Just wanted to share the following issue I see > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > with apache-tomee-1.5.1-20121201.041455-93-plus; I > >> > don't > >> > > > >>>>> think I > >> > > > >>>>> > saw > >> > > > >>>>> > >> this > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > with earlier versions of snapshot. > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 1. TomEE 'is' shutdown (or not running) > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 2. Drop a WAR in tomee /webapps folder > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 3. Start TomEE via NetBeans > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 4. Attempt to use/access the web app > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 5. None of the latest software changes in the WAR > >> file > >> > > > (that > >> > > > >>>>> was > >> > > > >>>>> > >> 'last' > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > dropped in tomee /webapps folder) can be seen in > the > >> > web > >> > > > app > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 6. Undeploy web app via NetBeans > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 7. Shutdown TomEE > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 8. Drop WAR in tomee /webapps folder 'again' > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 9. Start TomEE via NetBeans > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 10. Use/access the web app > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > 11. Finally, I see my latest software changes > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > I've duplicated this at least twice within the > last > >> 1 > >> > or > >> > > 2 > >> > > > >>>>> hours. > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > I am reporting this, since I know TomEE 1.5 vote > is > >> > > vastly > >> > > > >>>>> > >> approaching > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> and > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > this 'might' be a bug, unless this is a user > error. > >> :) > >> > > > >>>>> > >> >> > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >>>>> > > >> > > > >>>>> > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > >>> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >
