Michael Adams wrote:
On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:37:42 +0000
Came this utterance formulated by AG to my mailbox:
Is it just me or does this list seem to receive a surprising amount of
messages requesting to be unsubscribed? I belong to over 20 other
lists from a range of (computing-related) fields and this is easily
the list with the highest unsubscription-related traffic from this
albeit limited sample, as exemplified by Mr Considine's repeated plea
below.
At the risk of coming across as elitist or starting some kind of
flame-war, I wonder if this is because with the exception of a couple
of multi-platform lists, my other subscriptions exclude MS Windows and
MS Office users by the nature of the OS used (GNU/Linux and *BSD).
The multi-platform lists (with the exception of this one) concern
programming, so are platform generic, but are likely to attract a
higher percentage of "computer-aware" users. OOo users is the one
cross-platform list I belong to that is for the user rather than a
programmer demographic and is also the one most plagued as described.
* The OO.o lists are (relativly) easy to find on the website.
* The user list especially is prone to be seen as an email helpdesk
facility.
* signing up is (too?) easy.
* Many who want the power of an Office product are newbies to
computers.
* Many who want help are not even familiar with copy and paste.
* Many who want help are totally unfamiliar with mailing lists:
- No knowledge of threading.
- No knowledge of top or bottom posting conventions.
- No knowledge of how to set up an email filter.
* Many join the list without understanding how many emails they will
receive.
* Many do not know howw to get off a mailing list once on:
- the list has been threatened with lawsuits for spamming.
- the list has suffered manual blitz attacks from those frustrated in
trying to get off the list.
* Third parties that sell OO.o direct often quote this list as a help
facility.
* Some list members have recommended to unsubscribed posters that they
should subscribe.
* Most of these topics have been discussed repeatedly.
* Many newbies for the above reasons are better off not subscribed.
* Programmers, especially OSS programmers, are not only familiar with
mailing lists but also mailing list nettiquette. Newbies are often not.
A few that could genuinely help have given up and unsubscribed
themselves due to the signal/noise ratio. Some with low tolerance to
newbie mistakes hang around interminably slamming newbies. Others with
serious opposition to the way this list is run also hang round
interminably griping, sniping and flaming. It may be like mayhem around
here, but there is still a good amount of usefull help that goes on
regardless.
HTH
That pretty much sums up the range of issues underlying my observation.
We all began from zero, so being a newbie isn't the issue. I do sense
quite a distinction, and recognise it in myself, between wanting to
*use* a computer and wanting to *learn* a computer. To some extent one
should expect to have to learn how to use the expensive and powerful bit
of kit one has invested in, but when computers are sold as consumer
goods it seems to engender, at least through the common MS hegemony, a
kind of point-and-click attitude.
In light of this, is there any mileage in reducing the list noise
through a /dev/null switch or for starting a branch for
*absolute*-n00bs? Losing more experienced users due to list noise is
simply a result of poor list management. Without more experienced users
willing to share that experience, no-one learns which is really
antithetical to the FS and OSS community ethos.
I have no idea about how to set or change list serv configs, but the
python-based MailMan (found at:
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html ) allows quite a few
config settings to manage lists.
It just seems quite counter-productive to become a black hole for user
noise without any way of filtering out the genuine requests for help,
observations and contributions from the pleas of those who have been
subscribed wittingly or by direction to unsubscribe. This can surely
not be a difficult issue to solve, and if it can't be solved at the
level of the list, then I'll probably have to experiment with filters
locally in IceDove (aka ThunderBird). More than this however is the
trend that, as you note, begins to chase away those from whom we can
each learn, and which makes any list worth its onions.
