I just sent a request to subscribe to the users list. Haven't got
the confirmation message yet.
On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 09:13:54PM -0400, G. Roderick Singleton wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-10-09 at 21:05 -0400, Jack Carroll wrote:
> > Thanks! Cooking up a template was more help than I expected. I
> > wasn't expecting anything more than pointers to what sections of the manual
> > to study closely, and a yes/no opinion as to whether what I want to do is
> > possible.
> >
> >
>
> Well you see it is possible. Now you can do me a favour, please take the
> traversal doc and export it as MIF, preferably MIF for Frame 5 and into
> rtf and email both to me. I have been trying to get a MIF to OOo filter
> made and need samples.
Well, so far I haven't managed to do anything with that template.
I'll plug in the experimental disk tomorrow, and see if a later version of
OO helps. Turns out the Libranet partition has 1.1.3 on it, and all I get
when I try to open the file you sent is a blank page. I tried reading up on
templates in the OO manual, and didn't learn much.
So here's a newbie reaction to the manual: It doesn't explain how
things actually work. It just gives instructions on how to do some specific
tasks. I learned Frame by going back and forth between the user manual and
the reference manual, and I suspect that's what it's going to take for
anyone to really master OO. It's like the difference between a mechanical
assembly drawing and a step-by-step assembly procedure: they both have their
place, and that place is usually side-by-side.
Now, for the MIF: I wrote the document in FM 3.1, so that's the
version of MIF I'll have to export to. That's the last version of Frame
they ever did for Unix on the Apollo workstation, and truthfully, I don't
miss having the later versions. FM 5 is a little too MS-influenced for me;
I don't find its operator interface nearly as logical.
I've never used MIF, mind you, so I may have to fool around a little
before it comes out. But I'll send it to your private address off-list, as
soon as I have the file.
BTW, I have a MIF manual. Let me know if you need me to look
anything up in it.
>
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 09:39:30AM -0400, G. Roderick Singleton wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2005-10-08 at 22:40 -0400, Jack Carroll wrote:
> > > > Oops, forgot to attach the example. Here it is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [snipped forwarded message]
> > >
> > > I encourage you to take off your Frame hat and put on your OOo hat.
> >
> > Well, yes. This calls for getting a brand-new hat and learning how
> > to wear it.
> >
>
> It is like going from Interleaf to Frame, eh?
Never tried Interleaf. I tried Island Write for a while when I
first got the Apollo, and it wasn't up to the job. Then I went through the
Frame demo and tutorial, and never looked back. The next word processor I
got hit with was MS Word, and seeing that after FM was like being asked to
give up a full set of Snap-On tools in favor of a cheap Chinese crescent
wrench. It's no wonder business managers use Excel for jobs that belong in
a word processor -- the Word tables feature doesn't #$^& work!
OO suffers some from the need to be backwards compatible with Word,
and present a user interface that looks familiar to Word users. That tends
to hide a lot of capability, and bury generality under a confusing swarm of
narrow-purpose features. Word terminology is just muddy. Maybe at some
point OO might get an alternate personality, so that the underlying engine
is viewed through an operator interface that reveals its full power more
clearly. Heck, it worked for GIMP.
> >
> > > They
> > > are not the same but similar. You have styles and templates. When you
> > > asked about the master I got confused thinking that you were referring
> > > to OOo's Master documents and then I realized that you were talking
> > > about templates and not Frame books.
> >
> > OK, I'll read up on templates.
Tried that. It looks like a template is the same thing in OO that
it is in Frame. A standard document file in a library tree, that gets
copied to new document files to supply common formats and boilerplate.
Looks like a Page Style in OO is the closest equivalent to a Master
Page in Frame, but it's not yet clear to me that it provides all of the same
functionality. In Frame I can lay out a master page with all the freedom
that I had in old-fashioned knife-and-glue paste-up: I can put any kind of
image anywhere on it, including line drawing features and grayscale images,
then apply any master page in the document to each of the body pages that
actually get printed. Note, a master page isn't part of a template file.
It's part of the document file, and is the source of page formatting.
> Do not forget page styles. These are very useful. See the example.
Not for a moment. Basically what I'm trying to figure out is
whether I can do everything with OO page styles that I can do with FM master
pages.
>
> You want debs pre-built rather than use alien? I suggest using 2.0 so go
> to
> ftp://ftp.linux.cz/pub/localization/OpenOffice.org/devel/680/OOO680_m2/Build-1/
> and grab one that suits your needs.
Oho! I'll sure look at that.
> > > So you want to know whether or not OOo can do what Frame does. It can.
> > > With your guide, study the attached template and I think you will agree
> > > that OOo comes very close to Frame. Please note that the template is in
> > > OpenDocument format which will open in 1.1.5 or 2.0 but not anything
> > > earlier.
> >
> > With that encouragement, I'll put some more time into this. I was
> > really trying to find out whether the effort would be likely to pay off.
> >
>
> Should be time well spent. OOo is quite good but Frame has its good
> points to which is why I kept my copy.
>
> >
> Nonetheless explore the doc webpages you never know what you might need
> or want. BTW, if you write or code we can use whatever cycles you can
> spare.
I better not promise anything right now. I'm already months late
with a couple of pages on configuring Ethernet interfaces that I promised
for the Debian Reference Manual, I'm writing up the part number system and
ECO procedure for Traversal, a state rep is expecting a summary of a
brainstorming meeting for a bill on electronic voting (we want to pass a law
against it in New Hampshire), Massfilc wants a dozen manuscripts for the new
songbook, and I started a new job last week. Plus, the caulking fell apart
in my shower this morning. So I'm spread pretty thin. But maybe I can
throw in a few paragraphs, if I get to where I understand some things that
aren't yet written up.
> I have put my reply-to to the users list.
>
> --
> PLEASE KEEP MESSAGES ON THE LIST.
> OpenOffice.org Documentation Co-Lead
> http://documentation.openoffice.org/
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
