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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Mixing uri_db and auth_db (Bogdan-Andrei Iancu)
2. RE: Mixing uri_db and auth_db (Edgar Barbosa)
3. RE: Mixing uri_db and auth_db (Douglas Garstang)
4. RE: Avpops tutorial (Douglas Garstang)
5. Openser 1.1 and forward() (Douglas Garstang)
6. RE: Avpops tutorial (Juha Heinanen)
7. RE: Avpops tutorial (Douglas Garstang)
8. RE: Avpops tutorial - documentation (G.Jacobsen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 19:58:42 +0300
From: Bogdan-Andrei Iancu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
To: Edgar Barbosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Edgar,
can you get a backtrace of the core? Can you reproduce this crash or it
occurs randomly?
regards,
bogdan
Edgar Barbosa wrote:
Another info that may (or not) be helpful...
If I set fork=no and restart openser, it crashes at that point:
0(17790) db_init: Connection 'mysql://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/astbill' not found in
pool
0(17790) new_connection: Opening MySQL connection:
mysql://root:@localhost/astbill
0(17790) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
0(17790) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
0(17790) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
0(17790) DEBUG:init_mod_child: CHILD , rank=1, module=uri_db
/etc/init.d/openser: line 118: 17790 Segmentation fault
start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --pidfile $PIDFILE --exec $DAEMON --
$OPTIONS
Regards,
Edgar
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
Of Edgar Barbosa
Sent: segunda-feira, 5 de Junho de 2006 17:17
To: 'Bogdan-Andrei Iancu'
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
Bogdan,
I think you're right about the max number of connections, since if I
change
the module load order it hangs in another module doing the same action
(requesting a new connection).
But I can't find where that limit may be...
I already set the my.cnf max_connections from 100 to 500, but without
success...
I guess this restriction should be elsewhere... any ideas?
Thanks,
Edgar
-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdan-Andrei Iancu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: segunda-feira, 5 de Junho de 2006 16:37
To: Edgar Barbosa
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
Edgar,
my first guess is that the mysql server does not accept more
connections. Is that the entire log with debug 9? I got more info, like:
15(30460) DEBUG:init_mod_child: PROC_TCP_MAIN , rank=-4, module=auth_db
15(30460) db_init: Connection
'mysql://openser:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/openser' not found in pool
15(30460) new_connection: Opening MySQL connection:
mysql://openser:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/openser
15(30460) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
15(30460) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
15(30460) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.18-Debian_7-log
what version are you running?
regards,
bogdan
Edgar Barbosa wrote:
Hi Bogdan,
Running with debug=9 it seems to hang here:
8(16807) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
8(16807) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
8(16807) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
8(16807) DEBUG:init_mod_child: CHILD , rank=6, module=uri_db
9(16808) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
9(16808) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
9(16808) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
9(16808) DEBUG:init_mod_child: CHILD , rank=7, module=uri_db
10(16809) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
10(16809) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
10(16809) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
10(16809) DEBUG:init_mod_child: CHILD , rank=8, module=uri_db
0(16789) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
0(16789) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
0(16789) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
0(16789) DEBUG:init_mod_child: PROC_MAIN , rank=0, module=uri_db
11(16810) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
11(16810) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
11(16810) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
11(16810) DEBUG:init_mod_child: PROC_TCP_MAIN , rank=-4, module=uri_db
Any idea of what may be wrong?
Thanks,
Edgar
-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdan-Andrei Iancu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: terça-feira, 30 de Maio de 2006 8:45
To: Edgar Barbosa
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
Hi,
run openser in full debug (set debug=9) and see where it hangs.
regards,
bogdan
Edgar Barbosa wrote:
Hi all,
I'm having a weird behaviour when mixing auth_db and uri_db.
With the following openser.cfg, the xlog("L_INFO", "TEST\n") is never
executed... seems that openser just hangs up...
If I remove the uri_db it works...
If I remove the auth_db it works too...
The problem seems to happen when I mix both...
Any idea of what may be wrong?
I'm using the latest version (openser 1.0.1).
Thanks
debug=3 # debug level (cmd line: -dddddddddd)
fork=yes
log_stderror=yes
reply_to_via=no
check_via=no # (cmd. line: -v)
dns=no # (cmd. line: -r)
rev_dns=no # (cmd. line: -R)
port=5060
children=4
fifo="/tmp/ser_fifo"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/mysql.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/sl.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/auth.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/auth_db.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/uri_db.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/xlog.so"
modparam("uri_db", "db_url", "mysql://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/openser")
modparam("auth_db", "db_url", "mysql://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/openser")
route {
xlog("L_INFO", "TEST\n");
}
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
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http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[email protected]
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:03:30 +0100
From: "Edgar Barbosa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
To: "'Bogdan-Andrei Iancu'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bogdan,
It occurs everytime I restart openser...
A backtrace... how can I get one?
Regards,
Edgar
-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdan-Andrei Iancu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: segunda-feira, 5 de Junho de 2006 17:59
To: Edgar Barbosa
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
Edgar,
can you get a backtrace of the core? Can you reproduce this crash or it
occurs randomly?
regards,
bogdan
Edgar Barbosa wrote:
Another info that may (or not) be helpful...
If I set fork=no and restart openser, it crashes at that point:
0(17790) db_init: Connection 'mysql://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/astbill' not found in
pool
0(17790) new_connection: Opening MySQL connection:
mysql://root:@localhost/astbill
0(17790) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
0(17790) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
0(17790) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
0(17790) DEBUG:init_mod_child: CHILD , rank=1, module=uri_db
/etc/init.d/openser: line 118: 17790 Segmentation fault
start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --pidfile $PIDFILE --exec $DAEMON --
$OPTIONS
Regards,
Edgar
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
Of Edgar Barbosa
Sent: segunda-feira, 5 de Junho de 2006 17:17
To: 'Bogdan-Andrei Iancu'
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
Bogdan,
I think you're right about the max number of connections, since if I
change
the module load order it hangs in another module doing the same action
(requesting a new connection).
But I can't find where that limit may be...
I already set the my.cnf max_connections from 100 to 500, but without
success...
I guess this restriction should be elsewhere... any ideas?
Thanks,
Edgar
-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdan-Andrei Iancu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: segunda-feira, 5 de Junho de 2006 16:37
To: Edgar Barbosa
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
Edgar,
my first guess is that the mysql server does not accept more
connections. Is that the entire log with debug 9? I got more info, like:
15(30460) DEBUG:init_mod_child: PROC_TCP_MAIN , rank=-4, module=auth_db
15(30460) db_init: Connection
'mysql://openser:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/openser' not found in pool
15(30460) new_connection: Opening MySQL connection:
mysql://openser:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/openser
15(30460) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
15(30460) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
15(30460) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.18-Debian_7-log
what version are you running?
regards,
bogdan
Edgar Barbosa wrote:
Hi Bogdan,
Running with debug=9 it seems to hang here:
8(16807) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
8(16807) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
8(16807) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
8(16807) DEBUG:init_mod_child: CHILD , rank=6, module=uri_db
9(16808) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
9(16808) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
9(16808) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
9(16808) DEBUG:init_mod_child: CHILD , rank=7, module=uri_db
10(16809) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
10(16809) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
10(16809) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
10(16809) DEBUG:init_mod_child: CHILD , rank=8, module=uri_db
0(16789) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
0(16789) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
0(16789) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
0(16789) DEBUG:init_mod_child: PROC_MAIN , rank=0, module=uri_db
11(16810) new_connection: Connection type is Localhost via UNIX socket
11(16810) new_connection: Protocol version is 10
11(16810) new_connection: Server version is 5.0.21-Debian_2.dotdeb.1-log
11(16810) DEBUG:init_mod_child: PROC_TCP_MAIN , rank=-4, module=uri_db
Any idea of what may be wrong?
Thanks,
Edgar
-----Original Message-----
From: Bogdan-Andrei Iancu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: terça-feira, 30 de Maio de 2006 8:45
To: Edgar Barbosa
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
Hi,
run openser in full debug (set debug=9) and see where it hangs.
regards,
bogdan
Edgar Barbosa wrote:
Hi all,
I'm having a weird behaviour when mixing auth_db and uri_db.
With the following openser.cfg, the xlog("L_INFO", "TEST\n") is never
executed... seems that openser just hangs up...
If I remove the uri_db it works...
If I remove the auth_db it works too...
The problem seems to happen when I mix both...
Any idea of what may be wrong?
I'm using the latest version (openser 1.0.1).
Thanks
debug=3 # debug level (cmd line: -dddddddddd)
fork=yes
log_stderror=yes
reply_to_via=no
check_via=no # (cmd. line: -v)
dns=no # (cmd. line: -r)
rev_dns=no # (cmd. line: -R)
port=5060
children=4
fifo="/tmp/ser_fifo"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/mysql.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/sl.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/auth.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/auth_db.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/uri_db.so"
loadmodule "/usr/lib/openser/modules/xlog.so"
modparam("uri_db", "db_url", "mysql://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/openser")
modparam("auth_db", "db_url", "mysql://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/openser")
route {
xlog("L_INFO", "TEST\n");
}
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[email protected]
http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
[email protected]
http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:59:37 -0600
From: "Douglas Garstang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Users] Mixing uri_db and auth_db
To: "Edgar Barbosa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Bogdan-Andrei
Iancu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I just upgraded from 1.0.1 to the current cvs version.
Ran openser and got this:
Jun 5 11:54:47 apollo openser: parse error (156,21-24): syntax error
Jun 5 11:54:47 apollo openser: parse error (156,39-40): bad
forwardargument
Here's the relevant section of openser.cfg. Line 156 is the line with:
forward(uri:host, uri:port);
#
# Outgoing PSTN Calls - Dispatch to Audiocodes
#
if ( src_ip == xxx.187.142.203 ||
src_ip == xxx.187.142.204 ||
src_ip == xxx.187.142.232 ||
src_ip == xxx.187.142.201 ||
src_ip == xxx.187.142.231 ) {
sl_send_reply("100","Trying");
xlog ("L_INFO","Outbound PSTN call. Dispatching to
Audiocodes");
ds_select_dst("2","0");
forward(uri:host, uri:port);
return;
}
What's wrong with this? The example in the 1.1 documentation has the same
use of the forward() command!
Douglas.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:02:23 -0600
From: "Douglas Garstang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Users] Avpops tutorial
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The documentation is not very good.
It's a wee bit difficult for others to write documentation when they can't
figure the software out, because the developers never wrote any good ones.
Eight months of openser and I'm still trying to work out how all this
branch stuff works. Don't have a clue, and there's no books on this stuff
either. If you ask in the list you get half answers and riddles.
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Fausak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:23 AM
To: Douglas Garstang
Cc: Juha Heinanen; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Users] Avpops tutorial
Douglas,
The programmer did write documentation! That's what we
currently have. Often it is a good idea for a non-programmer
(ie. user)
to write the documentation from their point of view.
Anyway, this is open software and the more people that help
develop it (and it's documentation) the better. If you don't write
it I'm sure somebody will someday :-)
-g
On 6/5/06, Douglas Garstang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Juha Heinanen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:01 AM
> > To: Douglas Garstang
> > Cc: Bogdan-Andrei Iancu; Sam Lee; [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [Users] Avpops tutorial
> >
> >
> > Douglas Garstang writes:
> >
> > > I'm not one of the developers.
> >
> > you don't need to be. in fact, it would give developers'
more time to
> > develop, i.e., write code.
>
> How can I write the documentation when I don't understand
how the software works?
> Are you suggesting I learn C and look at the code?
>
> I'm of the opinion that developers should write
documentation. If other people try to do it, they make bad
assumptions based on what they THINK they know. They then
write bad or wrong documentation which others read, and in
turn also write bad documentation. It's not a good model.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
>
--
Greg Fausak
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:04:29 -0600
From: "Douglas Garstang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Users] Openser 1.1 and forward()
To: "Edgar Barbosa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Bogdan-Andrei
Iancu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I just upgraded from 1.0.1 to the current cvs version.
Ran openser and got this:
Jun 5 11:54:47 apollo openser: parse error (156,21-24): syntax error
Jun 5 11:54:47 apollo openser: parse error (156,39-40): bad
forwardargument
Here's the relevant section of openser.cfg. Line 156 is the
line with: forward(uri:host, uri:port);
#
# Outgoing PSTN Calls - Dispatch to Audiocodes
#
if ( src_ip == xxx.187.142.203 ||
src_ip == xxx.187.142.204 ||
src_ip == xxx.187.142.232 ||
src_ip == xxx.187.142.201 ||
src_ip == xxx.187.142.231 ) {
sl_send_reply("100","Trying");
xlog ("L_INFO","Outbound PSTN call. Dispatching to
Audiocodes");
ds_select_dst("2","0");
forward(uri:host, uri:port);
return;
}
What's wrong with this? The example in the 1.1 documentation
has the same use of the forward() command!
Douglas.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 21:08:51 +0300
From: Juha Heinanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Users] Avpops tutorial
To: "Douglas Garstang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Douglas Garstang writes:
> It's a wee bit difficult for others to write documentation when they
> can't figure the software out, because the developers never wrote any
> good ones. Eight months of openser and I'm still trying to work out
> how all this branch stuff works. Don't have a clue, and there's no
> books on this stuff either. If you ask in the list you get half
> answers and riddles.
i don't like your attitude. if you don't consider quality of openser or
its documentation good enough and are not willing to do anything about
it, i suggest you look for some other open source product or go for
commercial offerings.
-- juha
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:20:48 -0600
From: "Douglas Garstang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Users] Avpops tutorial
To: "Juha Heinanen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Juha Heinanen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 12:09 PM
To: Douglas Garstang
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Users] Avpops tutorial
Douglas Garstang writes:
> It's a wee bit difficult for others to write documentation
when they
> can't figure the software out, because the developers
never wrote any
> good ones. Eight months of openser and I'm still trying to work out
> how all this branch stuff works. Don't have a clue, and there's no
> books on this stuff either. If you ask in the list you get half
> answers and riddles.
i don't like your attitude. if you don't consider quality of
openser or
its documentation good enough and are not willing to do anything about
it, i suggest you look for some other open source product or go for
commercial offerings.
What source do you recommend I use in writing my documentation? If you
could provide a source, I'd be happy to consider writing some. I did not
question the quality of OpenSER. I questioned the quality of the
documentation for OpenSER.
Just because something is open source, does not immediately mean it has to
have bad documentation.
Doug.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 21:22:33 +0300
From: "G.Jacobsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Users] RE: Avpops tutorial - documentation
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED] Org" <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Douglas,
> Are you suggesting I learn C and look at the code?
Why not ? I looked the whole of last week through the source code and
learnt
a lot.
If you have ever written a larger piece of software then you would know
that
for programmers every functionality is obvious - while for the users
nothing
is obvious.
Writing good documentation is almost as time consuming as writing the
software. I suppose that Bogdan and colleagues need also to make money
rather than write extensive documentation.
In any case, I think they are doing a great job supporting this project.
Perhaps some simple things which wouldnt incurr an additional burden on
the
developers could help.
1. The whole documentation on openser could be in wiki format so users can
add their wisdom to every function as they stumple across it. To start
with
one could duplicate the existing module documentation pages as wiki so
that
everyone can add his comments. And I would also make such new wiki pages
the
default entry point for the documentation rather than the existing module
documentation itself. That way everyone would be reminded to add his
wisdom.
2. ALL functions and keywords of all modules could also be accessable on
ONE
page (possibly by extending the cookbook) which then links to the wikis
for
the modules. I often find myself hunting through several module docs,
websites and search engines to find insight into a function.
Cheers
Gerry
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Douglas Garstang
Sent: Montag, 5. Juni 2006 21:02
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: [Bulk] RE: [Users] Avpops tutorial
The documentation is not very good.
It's a wee bit difficult for others to write documentation when they can't
figure the software out, because the developers never wrote any good ones.
Eight months of openser and I'm still trying to work out how all this
branch
stuff works. Don't have a clue, and there's no books on this stuff either.
If you ask in the list you get half answers and riddles.
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Fausak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:23 AM
To: Douglas Garstang
Cc: Juha Heinanen; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Users] Avpops tutorial
Douglas,
The programmer did write documentation! That's what we
currently have. Often it is a good idea for a non-programmer
(ie. user)
to write the documentation from their point of view.
Anyway, this is open software and the more people that help
develop it (and it's documentation) the better. If you don't write
it I'm sure somebody will someday :-)
-g
On 6/5/06, Douglas Garstang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Juha Heinanen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:01 AM
> > To: Douglas Garstang
> > Cc: Bogdan-Andrei Iancu; Sam Lee; [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [Users] Avpops tutorial
> >
> >
> > Douglas Garstang writes:
> >
> > > I'm not one of the developers.
> >
> > you don't need to be. in fact, it would give developers'
more time to
> > develop, i.e., write code.
>
> How can I write the documentation when I don't understand
how the software works?
> Are you suggesting I learn C and look at the code?
>
> I'm of the opinion that developers should write
documentation. If other people try to do it, they make bad
assumptions based on what they THINK they know. They then
write bad or wrong documentation which others read, and in
turn also write bad documentation. It's not a good model.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://openser.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/users
>
--
Greg Fausak
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to
use" - The Wall Street Journal
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
------------------------------
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End of Users Digest, Vol 13, Issue 20
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