On 9/2/2014 2:16 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 02.09.2014 um 09:57 schrieb Ted Mittelstaedt:
On 8/31/2014 5:11 PM, LuKreme wrote:
On 31 Aug 2014, at 08:08 , Ted Mittelstaedt<t...@ipinc.net> wrote:
Google does it. It's not impossible.
[snip]
My experience is that the commercial providers like Gmail are now
so aggressive that false positives are VERY common on their systems,
this leads to people nowadays quite commonly saying "check your
spam folder" on their websites and such that send feedback messages.
These two statements do not go together.
Only because your stubbornly sticking your head in the sand.
stop that trolling please
Then you stop being deliberately ignorant.
Google has well over 90% catch rate on spam out of the box
fine, you ignore that it is *not* out of the box
it is the same way a built up and configured system as i built mine
the last few weeks and train bayes was one of the setup steps
OK that is a point. But does the typical admin who first installs SA
train the Bayes filter for all users? I don't believe they do. In fact
the documentation for SA focuses so heavily on individual bayes
databases for each user that probably most of them don't even realize
they can use a single bayes database for all users on the server.
But my point is with the rules database anyway, not with bayes. I don't
see a problem with calling for a lower default spam score in the default
globabl config which is going to make the rules database
catch more spam, with a side effect of a slightly higher FP rate.
Google ALSO has a 1-2% False Positive rate out of the box. Their catch
rate is so high because they are willing to accept a high false positive rate.
and so it don't work really
Your definition of it not working. But their users seem to disagree.
Most users of Google are, in my opinion, idiots, and when their friends
email them and they don't get the email, once their friends contact them
later they almost NEVER go to Google's Junk Mail box - and notice that
Google blocked their legitimate mail. And if they DO notice this they
blame the sender (their friends) because Google Is Never Wrong.
and here you prove again that it don't work really out-of-the-box
because if i have to look all day long in my spam folder because
a noticeable part of my legit mail lands there it *do not work*
Are you one of those idiot users? No. But, you are NOT the average
Internet user, your NOT Google's target market, they don't want you on
their service, bitching to them about your FP's and them putting
your ham in the junk folder.
Your doing the usual techie thing which is to assume that since your a
techie that everyone selling anything on the Internet wants to market
and sell to you.
Sorry to burst your bubble that isn't how it works, the tech companies
don't want people like you buying stuff from them.
They don't want people like you returning the video card they bought
because you actually tested it and discovered they were lying about
their FPS or whatever.
They don't want people like you buying the 5 year warranty disk drive
then returning it 4 years into it when it crashes.
They want stupid people. Stupid people who will pay them and accept the
dreck they sell. Stupid people who will not even know the warranty on
their disk drive and won't bother finding it out they will just toss it.
This is the reality out there and so to the majority of people using
email services they aren't like you, they don't look in their junk mail
folders, and if a corespondent calls them and asks them to look for a
message in their junk folder and they find it, they will assume the
corespondent is at fault "because everyone else doesn't go into my junk
mail folder, only you do so it's your problem"
Unfortunately, the number of idiots on the Internet vastly outweighs
the number of smart people which is why Google is bigger
that may be true but don't change the fact that no spamfilter software
now, tomorrow or in 5 years will be perfect out of the box and frankly
it does not need to - it's typically part of a mailserver and nobody
should run a MTA "out-of-the-box" and expect "somehow it will work"
I'm just saying that out of box it should catch more spam and assume
people will tolerate a few FPs. Because that is what I am seeing people
demand in the real world. This insistence that "if SA is responsible
for even ONE FP it's a disaster" is a drag on SA.
Ted
