Hi Renat, Sorry to hear about your frustrations. I will try to address each point inline below.
On 3/20/07, Renat Zubairov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello, We are developing application based on T4.1. We have one T4 in production. And quite disappointed by the situation happening with Tapestry right now. Let me explain it from _my_ personal point of view. 1. Investments in T4 are lost. Application will not be portable to T5.
I don't think anyone has said T4 investments will be lost. I've stated many times already that I'll be writing some sort of upgrade "kit" for one version of tapestry to T5. I think I've already sort of made up my mind that this will be T4 -> T5. (of course anyone can change that with $$ ) On this very list I've seen people talking about running some form of hivemind services with the new T5 IoC...So I suspect that this will eventually not be as hard as people may think. The only reason we've not said an upgrade path won't be provided is because that would limit the future of tapestry - T5 - designs....No one said that they might not end up being something that will actually be easy to upgrade ....It's just a playing it safe kind of thing. Nothing is worse than making promises and not coming through - esp. on projects like this where the community is the only thing that keeps something alive.
2. Project lead is only participating in the discussion of the T5 questions on the mail list.
I've seen him answering T4 questions as well. We all do have to manage our time very carefully - and right now Howard has a lot of people playing with the very bleeding edge versions of T5...So he really has to give them highest priority as that is "the right thing to do" . Andreas / myself / everyone else are all still here to help with T4 whenever Howard is busy though. I've been trying hard to make sure I stay on top of list questions. Do people think there questions are going un-answered or is it that you just really would prefer to hear them from Howard?
3. T4.1 is in deep development and release plan is _very_ unclear. Development will the development of T4.1 ever come to some meaningful conclusion? Feature stability? Snapshot releases can be broken any time. I haven't seen any non-snapshot release of 4.1.X so far. Latest update of the new OGNL version? Was was the reason for that? Less stability? One snapshot depends on another snapshot?
Deep development isn't exactly true. At least not from my perspective. Feature stability / bug fixing / old issue fixing is the main thing I'm concentrating on now. Not to say that I'm not going to do anything new wrt Ajax / etc , just that it seems like the right time to fix up some of what are roughly 130 outstanding jira issues for T4 . The OGNL upgrade was a performance boost. I may have mis-read what people wanted, but over time I've seen lots of complaints about OGNL performance and since I didn't see anyone else doing anything about it (other than Howard creating tapestry-prop for everyone) I decided to go ahead and fix it myself. I'm now also the lead OGNL developer. I do also try to give special priority to OGNL issues once they are properly reported. I can understand this being a little frustrating for those of you still running into these last few little compilation issues I have to fix - but I hope the end result in vastly improved runtime performance of your production applications will make up for the temporary setbacks now. Bugs reported for ognl usually get fixed within a day or two of reporting. For example, I'm sure no ExpressionCompiler related bugs will exist tomorrow. They aren't that hard to fix but there are still conditions that pop up that the current test cases haven't handled yet. I get them when they come up or I spot a pattern of problems. Also, T 4.1.1 was released a while back...And it ~is~ SNAPSHOT sort of alpha software...
I have a serious fear that 4.1 will never see the release. In half a year (?) T5 is planned to be released? How important for project lead and project team stability of the framework? I can understand the pursuit of new fancy features and improvements, but never the less how do you see the project plan? How do you see migration path from 4 to 5, from 4.1 to 5? How do you see AJAX and JSON features to be implemented in 5.0? Wouldn't it be better to made some conclusion in 4.1 and put all efforts in 5.0?
I can't really answer to T5 questions right now. I may help a little here and there if it's really needed but I can't justify working on it fully until all of the T4 issues have been resolved - again roughly 130 - there's a lot of work left to do still. :) https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAPESTRY My personal development plan is to try and get 4.1.2 out the door once the ognl changes look stable. (ie no reported issues for at least a week or two ) Once that gets done I'll just continue down the path of what I already have been...Slight ajax feature improvements / usage / etc combined with more bug fixes / overall framework improvements. When you don't see any (or not very many ) T4 issues sitting in JIRA you'll know I'm ready to move on to T5 and only do slight bug fix / feature improvements on T4 as they come up. I'm sure T5 will start to attract new developers at some point as well, so I'm not really worried about it right now. I do want to see T4 become a rock solid series before I move on though, it's become an obsession now. There will be cross dev on T5 at some point either way - but on an even more practical pov T4 is what pays my bills right now....Working on T5 only would be putting myself out of business, and I already lost a pretty large chunk of $$ working on OGNL so I don't think I can afford anything else.
-- Best regards, Renat Zubairov --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Jesse Kuhnert Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer Open source based consulting work centered around dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
