Maybe it' d be best if there were no live links to Confluence, but just the
URL written as plain text? That would also help to keep spider traffic down.
On Nov 27, 2010 12:03 PM, "Christophe Cordenier" <
christophe.corden...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> It seems that the 'documentation' page has links on confluence
> cwiki.apache.org. And when confluence is down (at the time I write this
> mail) firefox fails to load the page fully and quickly, this is a bit
> annoying...
>
> I will look into this, but you have some hints
>
> Christophe.
>
> 2010/11/27 Juan E. Maya <maya.j...@gmail.com>
>
>> Katia, 'm a native spanish speaker and very interested in your idea. I
>> would really like to give back something to the Tapestry Community.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Katia Aresti <katiaare...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > 2010/11/26 françois facon <fra.fa...@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> Hi Katia,
>> >>
>> >> I would like to speak Spanish or English as well as you speak french.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Thank you François, but the french I write that you might read is
>> corrected
>> > - a lot - for several people who review my articles (technically and in
>> > order to correct my french) before publishing. I write for French
public,
>> > and I need to improve my french, so that's why I write in french.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Perhaps you will get more technical feedback, if you write your
>> >> documentation in English.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yes, probably. You might also be aware about the fact that in France
>> books
>> > like "Spring par la pratique" are even more successful than "Spring in
>> > Action". Why ? Because people like to read in their own language. You
>> might
>> > agree or not, personally I don't care about reading english french or
>> > spanish, but that's not the way how most people work. And the best
>> > documentation will be always written in our mother tong language.
>> >
>> > Have you asked yourself why is Tapestry very successful in Germany or
>> > Austria ? Is it perhaps for the very successful German book written by
>> Igor
>> > ? Why does Thiago write a documentation in Portuguese ? Maybe Brazilian
>> and
>> > Portuguese people, for example, might appreciate this documentation ...
>> Who
>> > could be better than him writing a Portuguese Tapestry 5 book ?
>> > I'm not pretending to do something like Igor or Thiago, I'm just
thinking
>> > about a beginner tutorial.
>> > Why would be better a beginner tutorial in english ? Is it because this
>> > tutorial doesn't exist ? Are you kidding ?
>> >
>> > @All
>> > Anyway, If somebody here is Spanish or writes Spanish and is interested
>> on
>> > this project, just let me now.
>> >
>> > Katia
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti <katiaare...@gmail.com>
>> >>
>> >> > Agreed, but there are quit a lot of things already published in
>> english
>> >> for
>> >> > tapestry beginners (existing tutorial, articles and so ).
>> >> > Personally I don't fell self confident enough to write a quality
>> tutorial
>> >> > in
>> >> > english, and then translate it to spanish. I mean, sometimes is not
a
>> >> > matter
>> >> > of the content iself, but just using crappy english. I write a lot
in
>> >> > french
>> >> > and the 95% corrections and feedback I get is concerning my french,
>> not
>> >> my
>> >> > technical content.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you change your mind. I know Spanish content is veeeeery (very
very
>> >> very
>> >> > ... ) appreciated and Spanish community is large enough to deserve
>> >> spanish
>> >> > content.
>> >> >
>> >> > Katia
>> >> >
>> >> > 2010/11/26 Javier Molina <jav...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > > IMHO, a better approach would be to write and publish everything
in
>> >> > English
>> >> > > first, then translate to Spanish if there is enough interest. That
>> way,
>> >> > > whatever material is created can reach a larger audience, and in
the
>> >> end,
>> >> > > will be of greater quality, as the translation can be done when
the
>> >> > content
>> >> > > has had some time to mature and be reviewed by the community.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > El 26/11/10 17:41, Katia Aresti escribió:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Javahispano and/or wherever it fits properly
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> 2010/11/26 Katia Aresti<katiaare...@gmail.com>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> @Javier,
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> Would you be interested on writing an article / tutorial /
>> something
>> >> in
>> >> > >>> binome with me and to publish it on JavaHispano ?
>> >> > >>> In Spanish :)
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> Katia
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> 2010/11/26 Javier Molina<jav...@comunicamultimedia.com>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> I just sent the ICLA by e-mail a few minutes ago
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> El 22/11/10 12:22, Ulrich Stärk escribió:
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> Javier,
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> you are cordially invited to help out by contributing your
>> proposed
>> >> > >>>>> changes: Please file an ICLA [1] with secret...@apache.org and
>> >> I'll
>> >> > >>>>> grant you write access to the wiki.
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> The same holds for everyone. Once your ICLA is on file you may
>> >> start
>> >> > >>>>> contributing to the documentation.
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> Uli
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> [1] http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.pdf
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> Am 22.11.2010 10:37, schrieb Javier Molina:
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> I haven't explored the site thoroughly, but here are some
>> >> comments:
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - in general, the new site looks prettier
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - it doesn't look good to have a "Tapestry 5.2.3 -- canceled"
>> post
>> >> > on
>> >> > >>>>>> the front page. It's scary and you have to read the rest to
>> know
>> >> > that
>> >> > >>>>>> it's just a release that didn't pass the vote. I know there's
>> now
>> >> a
>> >> > >>>>>> post
>> >> > >>>>>> above that saying 5.2.4 beta release, I'm commenting about
the
>> >> > concept
>> >> > >>>>>> of "fear-about-the-future-of-tapestry" content with such
>> >> visibility.
>> >> > >>>>>> Do
>> >> > >>>>>> we want things like that to see what potential new users get
on
>> >> > their
>> >> > >>>>>> first visit?
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - news feed titles have too large a font
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there's too much text in the left column. I know there are
a
>> lot
>> >> > of
>> >> > >>>>>> benefits and features to tapestry, but it looks intimidating.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - in the "create your first tapestry project" tutorial, don't
>> make
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>> user choose an archetype or a tapestry version. Write the
>> >> > instructions
>> >> > >>>>>> for the latest stable version. It's better to have that be
out
>> of
>> >> > date
>> >> > >>>>>> when a new version comes out (because it still will work)
than
>> >> have
>> >> > >>>>>> the
>> >> > >>>>>> user decide at this stage. Same for the groupId, artifactId,
>> >> version
>> >> > >>>>>> and
>> >> > >>>>>> package. It's a test project the user is creating, those
values
>> >> are
>> >> > >>>>>> not
>> >> > >>>>>> going to matter. Give the defaults so people can copy and
paste
>> >> the
>> >> > >>>>>> command and have the project created, built and run.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - the big red scary warning about the project layout changing
>> >> across
>> >> > >>>>>> different versions has no reason to be. By the time the user
>> has
>> >> > this
>> >> > >>>>>> problem he will know how to solve it.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - after the test project has been created, give the user some
>> >> > pointers
>> >> > >>>>>> on where to find things (pages go in
>> >> > src/main/java/com/example/pages,
>> >> > >>>>>> page templates go in webapp). I know there is a link to the
>> >> tutorial
>> >> > >>>>>> but
>> >> > >>>>>> if this first experience is too frustrating, people might not
>> even
>> >> > >>>>>> bother to go there.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - add something to the archetype with commented out code that
>> the
>> >> > user
>> >> > >>>>>> can uncomment and see something cool happen. It has to be a
few
>> >> > lines
>> >> > >>>>>> only, to be easily understandable, and clearly link
components
>> in
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>> template with their methods in the page class.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - the tapestry tutorial starts unnecessarily verbose about
>> topics
>> >> > not
>> >> > >>>>>> really related to me getting code running and out the door.
>> Strip
>> >> it
>> >> > >>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>> the essentials. If you want to mention Struts and the Servlet
>> API
>> >> > >>>>>> compared to the tapestry way, mention them in a separate
>> chapter
>> >> so
>> >> > >>>>>> they
>> >> > >>>>>> are easy to find / skip as needed.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there is no table of contents for the tutorial and no
>> indication
>> >> > of
>> >> > >>>>>> how long it takes to complete.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> - there are too many callouts, warnings and decorations in
the
>> >> > >>>>>> tutorial.
>> >> > >>>>>> It is very distracting visually and that makes it hard to
>> follow.
>> >> > It's
>> >> > >>>>>> impossible to scan the pages to get a feel for what you've
got
>> >> ahead
>> >> > >>>>>> of
>> >> > >>>>>> you.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> Basically, what most of the above boils down to is: make the
>> >> barrier
>> >> > >>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>> entry as absolutely low as possible. All the magic tapestry
>> does
>> >> for
>> >> > >>>>>> you
>> >> > >>>>>> and how great a framework it is will not matter if people
don't
>> >> get
>> >> > >>>>>> past
>> >> > >>>>>> the initial experience.
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> El 19/11/10 22:15, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> We're still working out the kinks ... and I've been working
>> hard
>> >> on
>> >> > >>>>>>> revising
>> >> > >>>>>>> the tutorial ... but at long last, we're debuting the new
>> >> Tapestry
>> >> > >>>>>>> Web
>> >> > >>>>>>> Site:
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> Feedback is encouraged; just post to
>> >> us...@tapestry.apache.orgwith
>> >> > >>>>>>> [SITE]
>> >> > >>>>>>> in the subject.
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Christophe Cordenier.
>
> Committer on Apache Tapestry 5
> Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com
