I conversation I avoid the problem altogether by referring to 12-noon as simply "12", without the AM or PM, and 12-midnight as simply "midnight", without the number 12. Most of the time you say "twelve-thirty" you're referring to the middle of the business day, and if someone hear's me say "midnight-thirty" at that hour they're usually not awake enough to notice. Nat PS Speaking of Germany, I have some old Central Europe travel photos at: http://www.win.net/dorsea/nehager/budapest_prague_vienna/budapest_prague_vie nna.html >>>>>>>> 2001-07-26 Germany for one does not and has never used the designations AM or PM. Official time is on the 24 h system. However, in colloquial expressions, one uses the terms Morgens, Nachmittags, and Abends. Midnight is Mitternacht and times past Mitternacht until noon (Mittag) are referred to as such-n-such Uhr Morgens. Times from Mittag until about 18:00 h (Abendmahl) are referred to as such-n-such Uhr Nachmittags. From 18:00 to Mitternacht time is referred to as such-n-such Uhr Abends. So, the German day is in 3 parts, not 2. But, everything official is on the 24 h clock. Thus, no confusion. When I speak German to someone, I always speak on the 24 h system. I never use the old method, so I'm not really familiar with its structure in full. John Keiner ist hoffnungsloser versklavt als derjenige, der irrt�mlich glaubt frei zu sein. There are none more hopelessly enslaved then those who falsely believe they are free! Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832) ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen C. Gallagher To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: Thursday, 2001-07-26 07:41 Subject: [USMA:14630] Re: Metric Marketing I'm still puzzled by the comment that, in the US, midnight is 12 AM and noon is 12 PM (which I know to be true), but in "the rest of the world" it's the other way around. Which countries refer to midnight as 12 PM instead of 12 AM and noon as 12 AM instead of 12 PM? Stephen ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association Sent: July 25, 2001 22:42 Subject: [USMA:14619] Re: Metric Marketing In a message dated 2001-07-25 08:15:35 Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you want to get technical... what does p.m. mean? post meridian. And as meridian is noon, 12 post meridian or after noon would be midnight, or 24 hours. On the other hand 12 a.m. (ante meridian) would be 12 hours before noon, or midnight, 0 hours. So I guess that it boils down to whether you want the midnight at the beginning of the day or the midnight at the end of the day. Even the Chicago Manual of Style says to use 12 m. (12 meridian) or 12 noon for noon. If one is forced to stick with the 12-hour clock, then 12 am is midnight and 12 pm is noon. Reason -- 12 00 am is followed by 12 01 am; 12 00 pm is followed by 12 01 pm. Just as 0000 is followed by 0001, and 1200 by 1201. In a pure sense, there can't be a 2400 because there is no 2401. In a few cases some people take 0000 to mean midnight at the beginning of the day and 2400 to mean midnight at the end of the day. But you have to have a defined point when one day ends and another begins, and the most logical one is 23 59 59 to 00 00 00. Carleton
