2001-12-17

Is this for real?  I never heard anything about this in our local press.  I
am shocked.  You mean if American soldiers or citizens commit war crimes in
a foreign country, the US government would go to this extreme to prevent
such a person from being tried?

This is a criminal act in itself.

Do you have any further info on this?  Where did you hear this or read this?

I don't know why I am so surprised, I shouldn't be, It is so typical.

John




----- Original Message -----
From: "Han Maenen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, 2001-12-17 13:51
Subject: [USMA:16691] Re: I give up, I dont understand Americanattitude!


> Jim Ellwell, all the others on this list and many other Americans I am
sure
> are not among those who want to meddle in the affairs of other nations.
> Things are going from bad to worse concerning those who do. The
Netherlands
> will host the International Criminal Court in The Hague. The USA does not
> recognize it. Further, a law is before Congress now that will allow the
USA
> to impose sanctions on nations that support it and even worse, to attack
and
> invade (!!) our country in the very unlikely event that American soldiers
> should be awaiting trial before that court in The Hague. This means that
we
> may have to train a special elite force to counter attacks by an ally!
This
> is an exceedingly dangerous development. The USA could become a terrorist
> nation if this goes on!
>
> We must support the USA in the war against terrorism. It is our war too.
> This Islamic fundamentalism is a global threat. A few years ago some
> Algerian fanatics wanted to crash an airliner on Paris, but the plane was
> stormed in Nice before it could take off. But as Brazil showed recently,
in
> other cases we must be prepared to make a stand.
>
> And of course, the TABD campaign against 'metric only' was a blatant case
of
> meddling in the affairs of other nations.
>
> Han
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ma Be" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:28 AM
> Subject: [USMA:16665] Re: I give up, I dont understand Americanattitude!
>
>
> > Tsk, tsk, tsk, Jim.  Perhaps mostly due to your "zealousness" to defend
> your libertarian views you really "pisou feio no tomate" this time, my
dear
> friend!!!  I'll explain below.
>
>  On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:19:51
> Jim Elwell wrote:
> Kilopascal writes:
> ...
> The US is nothing more than a spoiled, rotten, arrogant child.  Instead of
> the attacks on 2001-09-11 humbling this nation it made the US even more
> arrogant and full of itself.
>
> Right or wrong, John's statement above is how most people around the globe
> have grown to perceive Americans, Jim.  It's just undeniable fact,
> unfortunately...  I'm not saying I condone with that perception or agree
> with it, but that if you talk to many "on the streets" around the world
> frankly and blatantly, this is the kind of reaction one would get indeed.
>
> I'm starting to think some of you guys don't have a clue about the concept
> of individual freedom versus nationalism. The above is just as much
> stereotypical hogwash as what Wizard writes.
>
> I'm afraid it isn't.  And actually if you could read many editorials of
> important media individuals outside of the US, this is definitely not
> "stereotypical hogwash" at all, but a reflection of other people's
> perception of America.
>
>  What happens, Jim, and what seems to be your failure to realize is that
> (right or wrong) the "nationalistic" component of America's society is
> speaking a lot more loudly than the "freedom" aspect that perhaps you
think
> is the kind of image that America would allegedly be wanting to project
> abroad.  What people actually hear more loudly, sir, is the "terrorists
will
> taste the justice of the USA"  (Idiot Bush's own words), the singing and
> showing of US' national anthem every and anyhow they can, "how the US is
> such the defender of freedom for all and bla-bla-bla-bla-bla (e tome hino
> nacional americano!  :-(    )!!...  How can one deny that, my friend???
>
>  I, for one, am sick and tired of this rhetoric, sir!  Yes, the events of
11
> Sep 2001 were terrible and all, but, by Golly, let's move on, shall we???
> Enough is enough is enough!  Why should my country, Canada, for instance,
> spend 7 G$ to increase security here?  We don't need such waste of money
at
> all!  We have never suffered any kind of similar attack here and (good
> grief, hopefully!) never will!  This war, sir, is yours, and ONLY YOURS!!!
> Don't try to make it mine!  (Not that I do not want to be perceived as not
> having solidarity to your problem, cause and grief, but that we have our
> problems, too, you know?!).
>
> I am an American, and I know plenty of them, and not ONE of them considers
> themselves any better or worse than any other people in the world. What we
> consider ourselves is sovereign individuals who, as long as we do not harm
> others, should be left alone, by our own government, let alone foreigners.
>
> Perhaps so, Jim, but, please understand, that that's not what your
> "propaganda machine" has been trumpeting everywhere and anyhow it can!  As
> for "being left alone", that comes as a huge surprise to me (honestly!).
> Eh, how so???  You are the ones who interfere in everybody else's
affair!!!
> So, let me get this straight, you "want to be left alone", and yet, you
want
> to poke and meddle in everyone else's affairs?!!!  HHHHmmmmm...
>
> And being "left alone" does not mean having others (whether Americans or
> foreigners) forcing us to use some particular ruler.
>
> The use of a "particular ruler", Jim, for your info, is a matter that
> "global leaders" around the world have come to accept and agree on as
being
> something that *everyone* would benefit.  Except that the US does not want
> to do its part in that program and ultimate goal!  How sad and
> depressing!...  :-S
>
> Now, if some of you would help educate Americans as to why metric is
better,
> then you will find some converts. But just climbing to the top of the
> mountain and screaming "Metric is better and if you don't use it you are
an
> idiotic, arrogant American" is counter-productive.
>
> Here I agree, but only in part.  Truth must be told, Jim, and this to
> *whoever* is on the "other side" (which unfortunately includes most
> Americans and some folks of anglo-saxon nature, British and Canadians,
> usually (with rare exceptions), for instance, included)!  It *IS* idiotic
to
> continue using ifp units, *p-e-r-i-o-d*!  However, the message should
never
> be a personal attack on any country or particular people though.  So, I
> guess we sort of agree on this one, mostly...
>
>  So, also, yes, let's get the message out (education), but let's also be
> very forthright with it and not hide the truth about the issue, either.
> With tact, prudence and wisdom, but truthfully, nonetheless!
>
> In fact, if we ever have a serious effort to force metrication in this
> country, you can bet your last dollar that this guy will be paraded all
over
> the country as an example of what will happen if such laws go into effect.
> It will DESTROY any chance of having forced metrication in the USA (and
> thank God for that!).
>
> A system of measurements has *always* been imposed on peoples, Jim.  The
> burden of proof is on you, my friend, to show otherwise.  Even on your
case,
> the ifp *has been dictated on you*!  Only that since it's now so rampant,
> widespread and accepted there that, given people's natural unwillingness
to
> change, also (among other things and misperceptions), it's anathema to
> *change* that in favor of the SI system!!!  ;-)
>
>  Finally:  (below)
>
> The only way for the US to be put in its place and become a team player
and
> not the neighbourhood bully is for someone bigger and stronger to come
along
> and put the bully in its place.
>
> Yea, and the only way THAT will ever happen is if some of your respective
> countries actually give their citizens enough freedom from over-regulation
> and brain-dead central planning that they can become as economically as
> America is. I'd be delighted to see it happen, but I'm not holding my
> breath.
> ...
> Sigh...  Here you're (understandably) letting your "libertarian voice"
> within you speak louder than reason.  Just as a reminder that your
assertion
> above is not entirely accurate I'd offer the example of Germany, a country
> that has one of the most stringent and 'over-regulated' environments known
> to us, and yet, it's arguably one of the most advanced societies in our
> planet (No?...  ;-)   )!
>
>  I'm for the German "model" anyday, anytime!  (Now this is probably my
> German blood speaking louder, I know, but...  what the heck!  :-)   )
>
>  Warm regards, Jim.
>
>  Marcus
>
>
>
>
>

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