And I must side with Pat on this one. Indeed, people go to extremes to justify keeping their "old" mindset when it would be far easier to just create new ones. Now, not that this is what Carl had in mind when he first argued his case. I can see where Carl was coming from. But, as I commented earlier the fact that we have a mess for the time construct unfortunately does not help and may probably be THE culprit for this state of affairs.
In addition, Pat's example reminded me of a previous discussion I launched here some time ago about replacing the bpm stuff by cHz. It could be quite easy for people to just count their heart's rhythm by simpling counting the number of beats in a 10-s interval and then adding a 0 to the result to come up with the cHz figure. Simple, effective and just as easy! So, *despite* the minute we would NOT need to resort to it to "relate" to our heart rates; cHz would perfectly do!!! And, as a rule of thumb (something Pat seems to enjoy doing! :-) ) here are some neat guidelines. "Sleep" rate: ~80+ cHz Normal heart rate: 100-120 cHz Recovery rate: 200 cHz Athletic performance: 300+ cHz "Super-Duper"/ultimate performance: 400 cHz Marcus On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:26:36 Pat Naughtin wrote: >Dear Carl, > >What you say sounds plausible, but I think you are confusing the convenience >of using your old mindset and 'Rules of thumb' with a rational choice of >coherent units. Let me try to explain this with examples. > >You say: 'If I use a 100-watt light bulb for 10 hours, it uses 1 kWh of >electric energy.' > >I say: 'If I use a 100-watt light bulb for 10 seconds, it uses 1000 joules >(watt seconds) of electric energy.' > >Notice how I have supported my argument that it is OK to use SI with a >carefully selected choice of example - and you have done the same thing to >support your view that kWh also has convenient calculations. > >This choice of unit and choice of convenient numbers can be done in any >comparison between old measures and SI units - but it doesn't prove anything >- it just shows how clever we can be when we want to keep an old unit to >save us from changing our minds. > >As for your claim that: 'For the average consumer, it is probably more >informative to get electric bills in kWh.', I disagree with this statement >firstly because I don't believe that an 'average consumer' has any idea of >the size of a kilowatt hour of electrical energy. Secondly I think it would >be 'more informative' for an 'average consumer' to be able to compare their >electrical energy bill with their gas energy bill that is measured in >megajoules. > >With respect to speedometers, it would be relatively easy to construct some >rules of thumb to describe car speeds in metres per second. 30 m/s is OK for >the freeway 20 m/s is OK for a relatively major suburban street and 10 m/s >is probably OK for a quiet suburban street. I could also argue that it is >good to know when you are travelling at 30 m/s when you are moving toward a >children's crossing and you know that it takes (say) 100 metres to stop from >this speed. > >Cheers, > >Pat Naughtin CAMS >Geelong, Australia > >on 2002-07-15 07.16, Carl Sorenson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> The point below is an important one. Measuring in seconds is obviously >> superior for many scientific and technical purposes, but in everyday life we >> often use hours. If I use a 100-watt light bulb for 10 hours, it uses 1 kWh >> of electric energy. This is equal to 3.6 MJ, but you lose the round >> numbers. For the average consumer, it is probably more informative to get >> electric bills in kWh. Automobile speedometers give values in km/h because >> those units are more useful when you want to know how long it will take to >> get to your destination. You would measure a car ride as twenty minutes, >> not as 1200 s. It's also more convenient to use degrees Celsius in everyday >> life rather than kelvins. Each of these units can be converted to pure SI >> units without much effort, but they are more convenient. >> >> Carl Sorenson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On >> Behalf Of Joseph B. Reid >> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 7:49 PM >> To: U.S. Metric Association >> Subject: [USMA:21058] Re: No Nonsense >> >> >> If I understand Gene aright, he would ask that automobile speedometers be >> graduated in metres per second rather than km/h. He wrote me on 2002-07-13 >> at 13:53 >> >>> Joe, >>> >>> In defense of Bob Bushnell, neither his statements nor your statements >>> are "nonsense" except your opinion that his statement on Wh is nonsense. >>> >>> In fact, on page 121 of the BIPM Brochure, we find that the joule is >>> *defined* as the newton meter, not as the watt second, as you imply. >>> >>> The watt second, an equivalent but less fundamental form of the joule, >>> and the watt hour, not even a coherent SI form, are not even mentioned >>> in this CIPM Resolution of 1946. >>> >>> Contrary to your implication, Bob does not assert that the joule, the >>> watt, and the watt second are exclusively for electrical applications. >>> >>> Bob's statements are clear. The joule is preferred for all forms >>> of energy. However, Bob would "allow" the watt hour only for its >>> traditional use; for the measurement of *electrical* energy. >>> >>> If I had the authority, I would declare the watt hour illegal by a date >>> certain for any kind of energy bought or sold in interstate commerce. >>> >>> Gene. >>> .......................................... >>>> Robert Bushnell wrote on July 12 >>> >>>>> Madan; ... you tell Claire to give energy in units of TWH. >>>>> >>>>> This is wrong. The watt hour is allowed only for electricity. >>>>> >>>>> Energy is given in multiples of joule... >>> >>> Joe Reid responded on July 12: >>>> Nonsense! The watt is the SI derived unit for all kinds of power - >>>> mechanical, electrical or thermal. Agreed that the joule is the SI >>>> derived unit of energy and is equal to the watt second, again not >>>> exclusively electrical. The watt hour is a non-SI unit accepted for >>>> use with the International System... >> >> Joseph B.Reid >> 17 Glebe Road West >> Toronto M5P 1C8 Tel. 416 486-6071 >> >> > > Is your boss reading your email? ....Probably Keep your messages private by using Lycos Mail. Sign up today at http://mail.lycos.com
