Dear Jeff, Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting that any official SI units (e.g. millilitres and millimetres) are technically inferior or superior to any other units (e.g. centilitres and centimetres). What I am saying � as strongly as I can � is that for any nation that is currently in the process of metrication, the choice of millimetres and millilitres will hasten the process remarkably.
I used to say that you could teach a builder's laborer enough SI units to construct a house in 50 minutes � using millimetres; and it takes at least 50 years to teach a clothing worker enough SI units to construct a skirt � using centimetres, and I only had my tongue slightly in my cheek. As you say: > I'm not fussed either way. And I suggest that you should be (at least slightly) fussed. If you choose centimetres as the small unit of length for metrication at your place of work, you should also settle down for the 50 year wait for the conversion process to be complete. Cheers, Pat Naughtin CAMS Geelong, Australia on 2002-07-24 07.48, Jeff Gross at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm not fussed either way. However, in continental European usage, > centilitres are used for wine and glassware sizes. Some of that usage is > commonplace here as well - mostly wine and alcohol packaging. There are some > differences - a Coke can is labelled 330 ml here, 33 cl in France and 0.33 l > in Germany. I used centilitres because the cup manufacturer used it in their > specifications. > > What I'm more irritated about is that just about everything in the UK is > already sold by litres or subdivisions. Apparently, there is starting to be > some reversion, and I'd like to nip it in the bud. > > As for Canada, I'm sure construction conversion is lagging because of the > wind-up of metric conversion before the job was done, and influence from the > US. It is interesting that the US is using millimetres in their metric civil > engineering projects though. > > -- Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Naughtin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 22:23 > To: Jeff Gross; chris metric.org.uk > Subject: Re: [ukma] Puccino's coffee > > > Dear Jeff and All, > > Personally, I would avoid the use of centilitres in favor of 250 millilitres > on your coffee cup. > > Australia avoided centilitres (with decilitres, dekalitres, and hectolitres) > in our metrication process, and as a result the conversion from old volume > measures to millilitres and litres was relatively painless and reasonably > rapid. > > We could compare this with the use of millimetres and centimetres. In the > building and engineering professions and trades, millimetres were chosen as > their preferred small unit; metrication was smooth and fast. The textile, > clothing, and footwear trades chose centimetres as their preferred small > unit; they are still dithering with the metrication process using various > combinations of inches and centimetres in their daily work. > > Metrication in the Australian building industry was completed within about a > year � the textile, clothing, and footwear industries are still struggling > with metrication after 30 years so far (and counting). > > On an international scale, metrication of the Australian building industry > was rapid and complete in a few months � using millimetres. The Canadian > building industry is still struggling with their conversion process after > nearly thirty years � using centimetres. > > Cheers, > > Pat Naughtin CAMS > Geelong, Australia > > on 2002-07-23 23.34, Jeff Gross at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> I realise that I could hit them with the trading standards hammer, but I > was >> looking for a more subtle response. I really don't want Puccino's just to >> change the metric amount on the cup to 227 ml, 237 ml or whatever. I'd >> rather see the rational quantity that is the cup size (25 cl or 250 ml) > and >> no imperial equivalent. >> >> There's a bigger problem here - the fact that many retailers of hot and > cold >> beverages use fluid ounces in their menus and other size referencing >> material. The manufacturer of the cups (Bender's) seems to encourage this >> use, despite the cups being metrically sized. I would like to know if >> there's any specific restriction against this or not - it would affect how > I >> respond. >> >> That's why I was looking for a co-ordinated UKMA response. I think there's > a >> problem here bigger than Puccino's that we need to address. You wouldn't >> think there would be a problem - 25 cl definitely looks like more than 8 > fl >> oz. >> >> By the way, the picture has been posted in the Pictures section of the >> Smartgroup. >> >> -- Jeff >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Martin Vlietstra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 14:13 >> To: Jeff Gross >> Cc: UKMA (E-mail) >> Subject: Re: [ukma] Puccino's coffee >> >> >> Jeff, >> >> If the advert said 327ml, then there is clearly a problem. I believe >> that the law requires the use of the metric measure and allows the >> imperial measure as supplementary information. Thus, the metric measure >> takes precedence and if the cup does not hold 327ml, Puccino's are >> committing an offence under the weights and measures act. >> >> Since the cups are giving short measure, the trading standards officer >> is obliged to act. Once he has started acting, he will apply the law to >> its fullest extent - you do not need to worry. >> >> I suggest that you identify a branch (if possible) where the offending >> cups are used and that you inform the local trading standards officer >> right away. If I were a trading standard officer, I would require them >> to erect a large notice in drawing to attention a printing error on >> their cups and that the notice remain in place until they comply with >> the law. Furthermore, they would be given one week to comply with the >> law. (This would stop them going out of business). >> >> >> Martin. >> >> >> >> In message <1324439335.1027428172472.JavaMail.vpmail@gimli>, Jeff Gross >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >>> The .jpg attachment was stripped by the Smartgroups server. I'll post it > in >>> the Smartgroups forum. >>> >>> -- Jeff >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jeff Gross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>> Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 13:31 >>> To: UKMA (E-mail) >>> Subject: [ukma] Puccino's coffee >>> >>> >>> I stumbled upon a Puccino's coffee cup today, of which a .jpg picture is >>> attached. You'll note that at the bottom it says "8 fl. oz. (327 ml) e" >>> >>> There's a lot wrong with this: >>> 1. The conversion is wrong (8 Imperial fl oz = 227 ml / 8 US fl oz = 237 >> ml) >>> 2. The Imperial is more prominent than the metric. >>> 3. The cup is actually a 25 cl (250 ml) cup. >>> >>> Before I write and complain to Puccino's (http://www.puccinos.com), I >> wanted >>> to get an idea of the legal standing of these types of cups. I've seen >>> similar cups that use references to fluid ounces. Puccino's is a British >>> company, and has coffee shops all over. I've never bought one of their >>> coffees before, so I don't know if they're formally sold by the Imperial >>> sizes. >>> >>> The cup was manufactured by a British firm - Benders >>> (http://www.benders.co.uk). If you visit their web site, you'll note that >>> their cups are sized in cl with an approximate fl oz conversion. The part >>> number of the Puccino's cup starts with 8209. >>> >>> Let me know your takes on this, and what course of action I (or someone >>> else) should take. Perhaps we want to set up an official, standard UKMA >>> response. >>> >>> -- Jeff >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/mixed >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> image/jpeg >>> --- >>> >>> #>- >>> > http://list.to/srv/SubOpt?id=_3rQpacvqSYvQZnMgeEO%2BCCYQOHJ1j99F%3F%3D -<# >>> >>> UK Metrication Association >>> http://www.metric.org.uk >>> Messages posted on the list should not be reproduced without permission. >>> Mailinglist WWW Archive; >>> http://list.to/srv/WebArchive?id=_y%2BMuWw%2BgZOn1ZWUJ6zhcYw%3D >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> UK Metrication Association >>> http://www.metric.org.uk >>> Messages posted on the list should not be reproduced without permission. >>> Mailinglist WWW Archive; >>> http://list.to/srv/WebArchive?id=_y%2BMuWw%2BgZOn1ZWUJ6zhcYw%3D >>> >> >> -- >> Martin Vlietstra >> >> #>- >> http://list.to/srv/SubOpt?id=_3rQpacvqSYvQZnMgeEO%2BCCYQOHJ1j99F%3F%3D -<# >> >> UK Metrication Association >> http://www.metric.org.uk >> Messages posted on the list should not be reproduced without permission. >> Mailinglist WWW Archive; >> http://list.to/srv/WebArchive?id=_y%2BMuWw%2BgZOn1ZWUJ6zhcYw%3D >> >> >> #>- > http://list.to/srv/SubOpt?id=_s%2FkZWRdAq7Z%2Fh9loIHXgZkWf%2FLd990tF%3F%3D >> -<# >> >> UK Metrication Association >> http://www.metric.org.uk >> Messages posted on the list should not be reproduced without permission. >> Mailinglist WWW Archive; >> http://list.to/srv/WebArchive?id=_y%2BMuWw%2BgZOn1ZWUJ6zhcYw%3D >> > > #>- Subscription Options; -<# > #>- > http://list.to/srv/SubOpt?id=_3rQpacvqSYvQZnMgeEO%2BCCYQOHJ1j99F%3F%3D -<# > > UK Metrication Association > http://www.metric.org.uk > Messages posted on the list should not be reproduced without permission. > Mailinglist WWW Archive; > http://list.to/srv/WebArchive?id=_y%2BMuWw%2BgZOn1ZWUJ6zhcYw%3D >
