If this is to happen with *humans* here or anywhere, I can BUT pray for some Godly help, to spare them of sins uncommitted! Can this happen in the land of oppertunity and liberty, where *The Statue of Liberty stands calling one and all* to explore the untapped. Brij Bhushan Vij
>From: "Ma Be" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [USMA:21703] Re: What's Liberty Playing At?? >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:12:41 -0700 > >@#$%%^#$ I cannot believe these idiots are again trying to wreak havoc >over this stupid issue. Darn it! They've lost and that should be the end >of it! Now, what if they lose again in European Courts (which I'm >convinced will happen yet again!)? Appeal to the Hague? Then to the >Pope?... Alas! @#$%^@#% > >Marcus > >On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:28:36 > Stephen Davis wrote: > >Human rights group Liberty are supporting the Metric Martyr's at the >European Court of Human Rights!! > > > >Here is a transcript of what they have to say on their website. I have >interspersed some comments below!! > > > >Metric Martyrs go to European Court - backed by Liberty > >Application papers to be lodged in Strasbourg - 3pm Monday (local; 2pm >BST) > > > > > >The Metric Martyrs - five men criminalised by the state simply for >selling food in imperial measurements - will lodge papers at the European >Court of Human Rights on Monday (12th August). > > > >Human rights group Liberty will co-ordinate the legal challenge for the >Metric Martyrs in their appeal to the European Court against the UK >Government. The case will be argued on several points under the European >Convention on Human Rights - including Article 6 (right to a fair trial), >Article 9 (freedom of conscience), Article 10 (freedom of expression), >Article 1 of Protocol 1 (the right to peaceful possession of property). > > > >The five - Steven Thoburn, Peter Collins, Colin Hunt, Julian Harman, and >John Dove - will be represented in Strasbourg on Monday by Metric Martyrs >campaign fund co-ordinator and former fishmonger Neil Herron, and Liberty >director John Wadham, who will act as co-ordinating solicitor for the >European case. They will be at the Strasbourg court on Monday at 3pm local >time (2pm UK time) to lodge papers. > > > >John Wadham, director of Liberty, says: > >Its ridiculous that people should be criminalised for this. Its >completely out of proportion. The Government, the EU and the criminal >justice system should not be involved in whether a grocer uses imperial or >metric measurements - its ludicrous. > > > >Neil Herron, campaign coordinator for the Metric Martyrs Defence Fund, >says: > >"Our fight for justice - not only for these five men but also for >customers and shopkeepers across the land has been driven and supported >wholeheartedly by the British public, incensed and angered by the fact that >the politicians, the supposed custodians of their democracy, have treated >them with such utter contempt". > > > >BACKGROUND Four of the five were separately convicted of different >offences - summarised below - but the issues raised were the same. The >divisional court was asked to rule on whether various subordinate laws >affecting the five cases were unlawful and invalid. Human rights arguments >went almost entirely unconsidered at this stage. On 15th July, four of the >five were refused leave to appeal to the House of Lords - leaving the >European Court of Human Rights as their only resort. > > > >Steven Thoburn, of Sunderland, was convicted of two offences under the >Weights & Measures Act - for using imperial scales that did not have an >official stamp (this had been removed by a trading standards officer on a >previous visit after he deemed the imperial scales illegal). He was pricing >goods in the metric system as well as the imperial system. > > > >Colin Hunt, trading in Hackney, was convicted under the Price Making >Order 1999 for failing to advertise prices in metric. After converting his >scales to metric in line with council advice, he made errors converting the >price to imperial and was convicted under the Prices Act 1974. > > > >Julian Harman (greengrocer) & John Dove (fishmonger), both trading in >Camelford in Cornwall, were each convicted under the 1999 Price Marking >Orders. Their offences included displaying signs pricing Brussels Sprouts >and Pollack by the pound. > > > >Peter Collins, in Sutton, was not convicted of any criminal offence. His >licence to trade in fruit and vegetables contained conditions that he could >only weigh and sell in metric (though he could display additional imperial >prices). He complained to the magistrates court under the Local Government >Act; his appeal was dismissed. NB Some of the five regularly used the >metric system alongside the imperial system; they stress that they are not >anti-metric and that the offence in question is not refusing to use metric, >but continuing to use imperial measurements. > > > >John Wadham said: > > > >Its ridiculous that people should be criminalised for this. Its >completely out of proportion. The Government, the EU and the criminal >justice system should not be involved in whether a grocer uses imperial or >metric measurements - its ludicrous. > > > >Well, the Government has ALWAYS deemed what units of weights and measures >are legal for trade and a trader has ALWAYS risked a criminal conviction if >they persistently break weights and measures law!! > > > >Steve Thoburn, Colin Hunt, etc, would have been treated the same if they >had sold tems by the stone, the bushel or the peck, all of which are >illegal for trade!! > > > >"On 15th July, four of the five were refused leave to appeal to the House >of Lords - leaving the European Court of Human Rights as their only >resort." > > > >They conveniently forget to mention that they went to Court in Sunderland >and lost, then were allowed to appeal and lost again!! The House of Lords >could not find enough grounds for an appeal!! > > > >Why are Liberty getting involved in this?? Indeed, what human rights are >being denied the Metric Martyrs?? > > > >Are they being denied the right to trade or the right to serve their >customers the measures they ask for?? No, they are not!! Traders can >price in pounds supplementary to metric, a customer can ask for a pound and >they can give them a pound!! > > > >As these regulations have been in place for shops, supermarkets and all >other traders for the past two years now, I am curious to know why it's >taken them till now to decide it's against traders human rights?? Indeed, >as traders have always been bound by weights and measures law, whether >imperial OR metric, if the Metric Martyrs WERE to win their appeal, then >surely it effectively renders ALL weights and measures law null and void?? > > > >It's the only conclusion to come to!! If they consider that this law is >against their human rights, then surely ALL weights and measures law is >too?? > > > >I can only come to two conclusions here; either Liberty has not done >their homework on the legalities of this case (something I consider >EXTREMELY unlikely) or that they have some sort of agenda giving backing to >a blatantly political cause such as this!! > > > >I do hope it isn't the latter!! > > > >Regards, > > > >Steve. > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Is your boss reading your email? ....Probably >Keep your messages private by using Lycos Mail. >Sign up today at http://mail.lycos.com _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
