2002-08-16 I can understand such a complaint having merit in the US, as the US has no official "Weights & Measures Act" similar to Britain's and all countries of the EU. Such an act gives the states the rights to establish official and legal systems of measurement. It gives them the right to make changes and determine that formerly accepted units are no longer accepted and legal.
I don't see where and how The European Court of human rights has jurisdiction in this matter. In order for the "martyrs" to have had their rights violated, there would have to have been no Weights and Measures Act in effect in Britain, as there is none in effect in the USA. For the EU court to make a decision or even an opinion on the case would be impossible as it would mean they would have to find all Weights and Measures Acts in all member countries as a violation of human rights. And where to from here? If Weights & Measures Acts are a violation of Human Rights, what other laws will be seen as a violation too? What about a persons right to rob, rape and steal? Should such a court find all laws against robbing, raping, and stealing a violation of someone's rights just because they may want to do these things? To even say that their rights are being violated is crap. They still have the right to service their customers in any unit they wish. If the customer asks for something in a non-legal unit, they must convert it to a legal unit, measure it in a legal unit, and price it in a legal unit. In the end, the customer is not deprived of the product he/she originally requested. I just wonder where they will go from here after they lose this one! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, 2002-08-13 14:28 Subject: [USMA:21702] What's Liberty Playing At?? > Human rights group Liberty are supporting the Metric Martyr's at the European Court of Human Rights!! > > Here is a transcript of what they have to say on their website. I have interspersed some comments below!! > > Metric Martyrs go to European Court - backed by Liberty > Application papers to be lodged in Strasbourg - 3pm Monday (local; 2pm BST) > > > The �Metric Martyrs� - five men criminalised by the state simply for selling food in imperial measurements - will lodge papers at the European Court of Human Rights on Monday (12th August). > > Human rights group Liberty will co-ordinate the legal challenge for the Metric Martyrs in their appeal to the European Court against the UK Government. The case will be argued on several points under the European Convention on Human Rights - including Article 6 (right to a fair trial), Article 9 (freedom of conscience), Article 10 (freedom of expression), Article 1 of Protocol 1 (the right to peaceful possession of property). > > The five - Steven Thoburn, Peter Collins, Colin Hunt, Julian Harman, and John Dove - will be represented in Strasbourg on Monday by Metric Martyrs campaign fund co-ordinator and former fishmonger Neil Herron, and Liberty director John Wadham, who will act as co-ordinating solicitor for the European case. They will be at the Strasbourg court on Monday at 3pm local time (2pm UK time) to lodge papers. > > John Wadham, director of Liberty, says: > �It�s ridiculous that people should be criminalised for this. It�s completely out of proportion. The Government, the EU and the criminal justice system should not be involved in whether a grocer uses imperial or metric measurements - it�s ludicrous�. > > Neil Herron, campaign coordinator for the Metric Martyrs Defence Fund, says: > "Our fight for justice - not only for these five men but also for customers and shopkeepers across the land has been driven and supported wholeheartedly by the British public, incensed and angered by the fact that the politicians, the supposed custodians of their democracy, have treated them with such utter contempt". > > BACKGROUND Four of the five were separately convicted of different offences - summarised below - but the issues raised were the same. The divisional court was asked to rule on whether various subordinate laws affecting the five cases were unlawful and invalid. Human rights arguments went almost entirely unconsidered at this stage. On 15th July, four of the five were refused leave to appeal to the House of Lords - leaving the European Court of Human Rights as their only resort. > > Steven Thoburn, of Sunderland, was convicted of two offences under the Weights & Measures Act - for using imperial scales that did not have an official stamp (this had been removed by a trading standards officer on a previous visit after he deemed the imperial scales illegal). He was pricing goods in the metric system as well as the imperial system. > > Colin Hunt, trading in Hackney, was convicted under the Price Making Order 1999 for failing to advertise prices in metric. After converting his scales to metric in line with council advice, he made errors converting the price to imperial and was convicted under the Prices Act 1974. > > Julian Harman (greengrocer) & John Dove (fishmonger), both trading in Camelford in Cornwall, were each convicted under the 1999 Price Marking Orders. Their offences included displaying signs pricing Brussels Sprouts and Pollack by the pound. > > Peter Collins, in Sutton, was not convicted of any criminal offence. His licence to trade in fruit and vegetables contained conditions that he could only weigh and sell in metric (though he could display additional imperial prices). He complained to the magistrates� court under the Local Government Act; his appeal was dismissed. NB Some of the five regularly used the metric system alongside the imperial system; they stress that they are not anti-metric and that the offence in question is not refusing to use metric, but continuing to use imperial measurements. > > John Wadham said: > > �It�s ridiculous that people should be criminalised for this. It�s completely out of proportion. The Government, the EU and the criminal justice system should not be involved in whether a grocer uses imperial or metric measurements - it�s ludicrous�. > > Well, the Government has ALWAYS deemed what units of weights and measures are legal for trade and a trader has ALWAYS risked a criminal conviction if they persistently break weights and measures law!! > > Steve Thoburn, Colin Hunt, etc, would have been treated the same if they had sold tems by the stone, the bushel or the peck, all of which are illegal for trade!! > > "On 15th July, four of the five were refused leave to appeal to the House of Lords - leaving the European Court of Human Rights as their only resort." > > They conveniently forget to mention that they went to Court in Sunderland and lost, then were allowed to appeal and lost again!! The House of Lords could not find enough grounds for an appeal!! > > Why are Liberty getting involved in this?? Indeed, what human rights are being denied the Metric Martyrs?? > > Are they being denied the right to trade or the right to serve their customers the measures they ask for?? No, they are not!! Traders can price in pounds supplementary to metric, a customer can ask for a pound and they can give them a pound!! > > As these regulations have been in place for shops, supermarkets and all other traders for the past two years now, I am curious to know why it's taken them till now to decide it's against traders human rights?? Indeed, as traders have always been bound by weights and measures law, whether imperial OR metric, if the Metric Martyrs WERE to win their appeal, then surely it effectively renders ALL weights and measures law null and void?? > > It's the only conclusion to come to!! If they consider that this law is against their human rights, then surely ALL weights and measures law is too?? > > I can only come to two conclusions here; either Liberty has not done their homework on the legalities of this case (something I consider EXTREMELY unlikely) or that they have some sort of agenda giving backing to a blatantly political cause such as this!! > > I do hope it isn't the latter!! > > Regards, > > Steve. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >
