Stan:
 
I'll try to address the many errors in this in a day or so. Just as a
preview, though, BCD is a 6-bit code. The compatibility you claim between
Baudot Code (ITA-2) and ASCII doesn't exist. However, the compatibility you
describe does apply to the transition from BCD (not an interchange code) to
EBCDIC (a true interchange code, as is ASCII), including the appearance, in
EBCDIC, of both upper and lower case letters (and numerous other
characters).
 
Bill Potts
SI Navigator ( <http://metric1.org> http://metric1.org) 
Author, McGraw-Hill Data Communications Dictionary, 1992. ISBN
0-07-003154-1. (Out of print.)


  _____  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of STANLEY DOORE
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 01:16
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:39171] Re: Discussion on the metric system (off topic -- of
course)


Bill et al:
 
     Although this may be fundamentally off the metric topic,  it has a
direct bearing on why developing, learning and using the SI is so important.

    The SI is coherent, simple  and compatible.  And, the SI standard helps
to reduce costs of learning, production and operations.  The SI can and does
improve efficiency when understood and applied correctly.  The new quadlitre
milk jug is a prime example.  The manufacturing of cars which now are
designed and built in metric is another prime example.  And there are many
more examples.  The US is going metric very subtlely and consumers don't
care until arm-waving less knowledgeable media or those with an agenda
intervene to try to stop it.  Those people just aggravate the issue
unnecessarily.
 
    BCD is "binary coded decimal" which IBM and other computer companies
use to pack two decimal digits into one 8-bit byte for efficiency purposes.
Some inexpensive calculators use this today.  However, that became the basis
for using 8-bits to represent various  characters  and functions.  The
five-bit Baudot codes were used as the basis for the ASCII codes since the
shift bit was added to the 5-bits to represent upper and lower case
characters, numbers and functions.  Six bits were used initially since
computer words were in 6-bit increments until the 8-bit-based words were
invented for packed decimal efficiency and to make available  more codes for
more character sets.  Computers have been growing from 8-bit to 16-bit to
32-bit to 64-bit and to  128-bit machines to meet the increasing demand for
precision, HD displays, video and  for computation, TV  and game
applications.
    The length of the start and stop bits is irrelevant to information
coding schemes except to define the length and separation of characters
during transmission.  The start  and stop bits were used for asynchronous
transmission.  They were eliminated for synchronous transmission to increase
thruput (available information transfer time).  During the late 1960s I
designed and implemented a KCRT  synchronous transmission and display system
for weather rather than use asynchronous because I could get 3000 words per
minute for synchronous versus 2000 WPM for asynchronous over the same
transmission facilities economically.  A character check bit was added to
the coding scheme and used during the transition from Baudot  to
synchronous transmissions.  As computer technology advanced and costs became
less, complex longitudinal and lateral computations on transmitted bits were
used to replace  the check bits for transmission error detection and
correction and to increase thruput.
 
    The A, B, C, D etc you mention are represented by  the binary equivalent
decimals of 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.up to 31 (32 numbers including zero) in the 5-bit
code and 15 in the 4-bit binary coding scheme for BCD.  They occupy the
right-most (least significant bit) positions in the coding scheme as you
indicate.  The sixth bit was needed to provide for lower case and special
characters.  Therefore, the left-most bits could be stripped in processing
and the right-most (least significant bits) could be used to represent a, b,
c, d, etc regardless of case and still retain some base-intelligence.  That
technique is still used today in the Internet for characters which are not
case sensitive.  (Names to the left of the @ sign in email addresses.)
When the 8-bit characters became available,  complete  foreign character
sets and special character sets were invented and are used today.
    Coding compatibility was a major issue to contain manufacturing costs
while upgrading  teletypewriter systems from Baudot to ASCII machines and to
minimize conversion operations within computers. 
 
Regards,  Stan Doore
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bill  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Potts 
To: U.S. Metric Association <mailto:[email protected]>  
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 3:59 AM
Subject: [USMA:39153] Re: Discussion on the metric system (off topic -- of
course)


Stan:
 
This is the statement with which I have a problem: "The five bits of the
Baudot code are incorporated into the eight-bit ASCII code to ensure
compatibility between the old and new teletype machines."
 
I can understand (intellectually, but not practically) the creation of a 7-
or 8-bit code in which, say, the five low-order bits are ITA-2 code points.
However, such a code is not ASCII (or EBCDIC). In ITA-2 code (in which
letters are upper-case only, as they were in BCD), A, B, C and D are 11000
(24), 10011 (19), 01110 (14), and 10010 (18), respectively. They are not
even in ascending sequence and, of course, those same codes are used in
Figures Shift mode for =, ?, :, and $. In ASCII, the five low-order bits of
the codes for A, B, C and D are 00001, 00010, 00011, and 00100,
respectively. So there's no correspondence at all.
 
The older ("Telex") and the newer (TWX) teletype machines were not, in fact,
compatible. As their public networks were owned by competing companies
(Western Union and AT&T, I believe), compatibility wasn't much of an issue.
Devices (typically computer peripherals) were built that could handle any 5,
6, 7 or 8-bit paper tape, using any code (determined by the software
controlling them). I managed a computer service bureau, in 1971, where our
RJE (Remote Job Entry) terminal had paper tape capabilities, including
6-level tape containing output from cash registers. Incidentally, when
connected to computer-based networks, Telex and TWX terminals were able to
benefit from the code conversion capabilities of the computer software.
 
By the way, you may have missed my reference to 36-bit words in message
38931.
 
Best regards,
 
Bill Potts
SI Navigator (http://metric1.org) 


  _____  

From: STANLEY DOORE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 00:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Re: [USMA:39147] Re: Discussion on the metric system (off topic --
of course)


Thanks Bill for the very detailed technical explanation.
    I wasn't trying to belabor the point, but only to tell how the eight-bit
ASCII code was adopted in practice.  The five bits of the Baudot code are
incorporated into the eight-bit ASCII code to ensure compatibility between
the old and new teletype machines and to use ASCII internally to computers
like we now have in PCs etc.
    Word length in early  IBM  computers were 36 bits which is not divisible
by 8 (ASCII).  That's why the  16-bit, 32-bit, 64-bit and 128-bit
(PlayStations and supercomputers) word machines  were created for
compatibility.
    Now that manufacturing of longer word machines is becoming less
expensive and necessary and the need for intense image and video processing,
industry is moving to longer word machines.  This is necessary as new
technology and high definition TV come onto the market and discs like the
BluRay which have a capacity of 50 GBytes are necessary.
Regards,  Stan Doore
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bill  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Potts 
To: U.S. Metric Association <mailto:[email protected]>  
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 8:25 PM
Subject: [USMA:39147] Re: Discussion on the metric system (off topic -- of
course)

Stan:
 
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you about Baudot Code. The
five-bit code used for teletype machines was a 1930 variant, called ITA-2
(International Telegraph Alphabet No. 2). TWX (TeletypeWriter eXchange)
machines used ITA-5, otherwise known as ASCII. I will acknowledge, though,
that ITA-2 was known colloquially as Baudot Code. (See
<http://groups.msn.com/CTOSeaDogs/baudotcode1.msnw>
http://groups.msn.com/CTOSeaDogs/baudotcode1.msnw.)
 
However, that disagreement is really only semantic. More important is that
there is no relationship between the 5-bit codes and either 7- or 8-bit
ASCII (i.e., ASCII is not an extension of ITA-2, as even a cursory
examination of the two code tables will show). With the 5-bit codes, the
meaning depended on whether the device was in Letters Shift or Figures Shift
mode-and, of course, two of the code points were used for effecting the
shift. One of the virtues of ASCII and EBCDIC (and previously, of BCD) is
that, for a given natural language, every code point is unique and there's
no possibility of getting a garbled message because of being in the wrong
shift mode. Seven-bit ASCII includes Shift Out and Shift In code points,
used to change the character associated with some of the alphanumeric code
points. I've never worked with an actual implementation of that, though.
 
Another feature of ASCII and EBCDIC is the dedication of the lower-value
code points to control functions (0 to 31 [hex 1F] for ASCII, 0 to 63 [hex
3F] for EBCDIC). Other than Letters Shift, Figures Shift, Carriage Return,
Line Feed, and Space, ITA-2 had no assigned control code points. The ones
I've mentioned were independent of the shift mode and, therefore, could
legitimately be called control codes. As BEL (bell) was simply the Figures
Shift counterpart of the letter S (i.e., same code point, different shift
status), it can't be considered a control code.
 
Best regards,
 
Bill Potts
SI Navigator ( <http://metric1.org> http://metric1.org)


  _____  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of STANLEY DOORE
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 15:06
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:39145] Re: Discussion on the metric system (off topic -- of
course)



Hi Bill et al:
    Sounds like you and I came from the same era (circa 1958) of punched
cards.  I was on the US federal advisory committee for standardizing on the
eight-bit ASCII code.  We selected the eight-bit ASCII code as the base even
though IBM wanted a BCD-based system.
    At the time, the whole world used the five-bit baudot code  in
communications and Digital Equipment Corporation computers used an extension
of it (ASCII) internal to their computers.  It meant that the conversion
would be less stressful, less complex and more compatible by expanding the
five-bit baudot code to the eight-bit ASCII code for various reasons
Including the accommodation  of international and special characters for
both communications and computers.  Eight bits became a byte in computers
now used today while six bits were used to represent characters in early
machines of IBM etc.
Regards,  Stan Doore
 
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bill Potts <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
To: U.S. Metric Association <mailto:[email protected]>  
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: [USMA:39118] Re: Discussion on the metric system (off topic -- of
course)

Stan:
 
Please excuse the delayed response. I only visit this list occasionally
these days.
 
Although this business of codes is obviously somewhat off-topic, it's
interesting, especially to those of us concerned with the niceties of the
metric system and therefore of the view (probably, but not necessarily) that
there's no such thing as an uninteresting number (or, apparently, code).
 
The interesting thing about EBCDIC is that, as with the old 6-bit BCD,
there's a direct correspondence between the encoding of any given character
and its representation, as punch holes, on the now-obsolete punch cards.
Every one of the 256 values has a corresponding set of punch holes. And, of
course, as the punch card came first, EBCDIC code points are based on that,
rather than the other way around.
 
Used to the maximum, the 12 rows of a punch card column could, of course,
accommodate 4096 unique values. IBM's "scientific" 7000 series computers
used row binary to take advantage of that, with the first 72 columns of one
card being able to store the contents of twenty-four 36-bit words.
 
However, although looking back is fun, I'm glad technology has moved on.
I've never missed those days of humping ten-thousand-card cartons of punch
cards around the computer room (or the card jams or the dropped cards).
 
Bill

  _____  

From: G Stanley Doore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:20
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Re: [USMA:38932] Re: Discussion on the metric system


Thanks Bill for the correction and further explanation.
EBCDIC was invented to use the full 8 bits for expanded representations.
Stan Doore
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bill Potts <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
To: U.S.  <mailto:[email protected]> Metric Association 
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: [USMA:38932] Re: Discussion on the metric system

Stan Doore wrote: "IBM invented the hexadecimal to provide for all types of
international characters and many special symbols."
 
Not quite. For that purpose, they invented and introduced EBCDIC (Extended
Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code), for which the unit was/is the byte,
defined as a group of 8 bits. Because the three-bit grouping of the octal
notation was potentially awkward, they introduced four-bit [half byte]
hexadecimal notation, which already existed conceptually, but had no
practical application in the days of computers with 36-bit word sizes (e.g.,
the IBM 7090). Any EBCDIC value was thus expressible as 2 hexadecimal digits
(as was, eventually, any 8-bit ISO 646 [ASCII in the US] value).
 
Of course, it was still awkward, in that we all had to learn to use A
through F for the six four-bit groupings beyond the one expressed as 9. 
 
Code points in today's 16-bit Unicode are, of course, expressible as strings
of four hexadecimal digits.
 
Bill Potts 
(whose first experience with a computer was on the Burroughs E101 Desk Size
Engineering Computer, with its 256 10-digit decimal words on a drum,
plugboard programming, and a contemporary accounting-machine numerals-only
print mechanism).
 
 
 

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