Jim et al:
The response to you from the TN Association of Surveyors says: "I have
found that the general public find these units [decimal English units] of
measurement difficult enough to understand without implementing the metric
system as well."
This is understandable when going to tenths and hundredths of an inch
since rulers and tape measures which the public use are divided into
halves, quarters, sixteenths, thirty seconds of an inch and they are NOT in
tenths and hundredths of an inch. It's no wonder the public is confused.
Surveyors are trying to force-fit or impose a decimal system of English
measurement on a public which is accustomed to rulers with fractional
divisions of the inch.
The SI on the other hand is completely decimal throughout and therefore
the public does not need to learn confusing fractions to use the metric
system of measurement.
Stan Doore
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Frysinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: [USMA:41525] Metric subdivision regulations -- results
As part of my search for information on surveys and plats in metric
units, I sent an inquiry off that ended in the hands of the Tennessee
Association of Professional Surveyors. I received a very nice reply and
I have just responded to it. Those are reproduced below.
Last night's town meeting of the Planning Commission was both heartening
and frustrating. My comments were well received (only one was on this
metric issue) but the Commission voted to approve the proposed
Subdivision Regulations as written. However, off-line discussion with
them during and after the meeting indicated that a future revision,
perhaps not too far down the road, might accommodate some of my
comments. There was a need to get a document in place in the regulatory
system due to an impending influx of subdivision developers and until
last night the county had no regulations at all.
Please read the reply I received below and my response to it this
morning below that. Please do not jump in and try to help persuade the
TAPS folks; an onslaught of emails might undo the ground work I am
trying to lay.
Jim
TAPS reply:
Mr. Frysinger:
I find it interesting that you wish to recommend metric equivalent
standards into what I assume is Minimum Subdivision Regulations for
Suburban areas. While you are very conversant with the metric system,
the general public definitely is not. The standard units of measurement
for land surveying throughout the US is a foot, tenths of a foot and
hundredths of a foot. I have found that the general public find these
units of measurement difficult enough to understand without implementing
the metric system as well. The general public seems to best accept feet
and inches for units of measurement. The Tennessee Department of
Transportation implemented the metric system for a period of time for
their construction design drawings only to reverse this practice due to
confusion during the construction process.
As for the listed scales of 1” = 500’ or 1000’, in the areas I work
around Knox County the recommended scale is no less than 1” = 100’. The
area planning commissions do afford some flexibility for surveys of
large tracts. However, the scale is dependent on providing adequate
detail of improvements on properties.
The A1 and A2 paper sizes you list are close the standards of 24”x36”
and 18”x24” respectively and are slightly smaller. The fact that they
are smaller is a good thing because the paper sizes that are allowed by
most planning commissions are usually regulated by the Register of Deeds
Office and what they are capable of properly filing. I would suggest
you work with your Register of Deeds to make sure they are comfortable
with the paper sizes you would like to implement.
When the metric system has been utilized within the surveying industry,
the meter has been the standard unit of measurement, with information
being typically provided to three decimal places. That would be the
equivalent of providing information to the nearest millimeter, however
the standard unit of measurement is the meter.
I hope this information proves helpful. My recommendation is to stick
with the norm for the benefit of the general public. I feel that by
implementing additional standards, it makes what is already difficult
for the general public to understand even more difficult. Best of luck
in your efforts. If I can be of further assistance, please do not
hesitate to contact me.
Sincerely,
.....
My response:
Thank you very much for your extensive reply, Mr. ....
I agree that the American public feels more conversant with feet than
they are with meters. In my second career in teaching, from which I
recently retired, I have found that our young people better understand
metric units than non-metric, though sometimes they profess otherwise.
Self-perception often does not match reality here. Being conversant with
a term merely means one uses it more in speech than, perhaps, any other
term. That says nothing about one's realization of its size.
Partly to address that issue, I have been writing a weekly column for
over a year now that appears in the county's newspaper of record, The
Mountain View. The series is called "Measuring Up" and I am pleasantly
surprised at how many people approach me to say that they enjoy reading
what I write about the metric system. Some of our events at this year's
county fair will be based on results measured in metric units and I look
forward to seeing how that is received.
The trend is, overall, toward using metric units. What I propose is to
include metric units alongside the non-metric. Thus, use of metric units
would be permitted, though not required. The reason for that is to allow
for the increase in metric awareness and use that we should expect in
the future. As I am sure you understand, regulations are intended to
plan for the future, not for the past nor even for the present.
We see an analogy in package labeling. In 1994 the Dual-Labeling Act
required the inclusion of metric units on packaging on goods regulated
federally and states followed suit on goods they regulate. In a movement
that started in the year 2000 states have moved toward permissive
metric-only labeling on goods not regulated by the federal government
and now 48 states, including Tennessee, now permit that. Vendors in
those states may indicate only metric quantity values if they wish to.
The federal government is working on an amendment of the Fair Packaging
and Labeling Act to do likewise.
For roughly a decade now, the Olympic Games have been broadcast in this
country with reports using only metric units. There has been no hue and
cry to have those "translated" as once was the practice. Relentlessly,
American businesses are metricating. The automobile industry was one of
the early ones and others have been following suit. I buy my dog food
(Ol' Roy) in 20 kg bags and my mouthwash in 1.5 L bottles.
Again, you are correct about the American people having enough trouble
with using feet. Some years ago in a fabric store a woman ahead of my
wife in the line asked the clerk if there were four feet to the yard.
Very few Americans these days can tell you how many feet are in a mile
and virtually none can tell you how many square feet are in an acre. And
you can forget about rods and chains being understood. Most definitely,
few outside of the surveying community can tell you the difference
between a survey foot and the foot as redefined in 1959. Ironically, a
rod is extremely close to equaling 5 m and a Gunter's chain to equaling
20 m (an engineer's chain nearly equals 30 m). At this time all
Americans have seen a meter stick in school.
So, my intent is not to force folks to use the metric system but to make
it possible for them to do so if that is what they desire. That would
keep our county government in consonance with federal law. Hopefully all
of our surveyors have been trained to accommodate them. The one I last
had a survey done by here in Van Buren County could do so.
The practical concern about A2 and A1 plats fitting in existing folders,
binders, hangers, and drawers was considered by me when choosing those
sizes to recommend. A professor in this field at Texas A&M advised me
that A3 is being used commonly these days, with the advantage that most
copying machines can accommodate it.
Again, thank you for your extensive reply. I hope to find that the
surveyors of Tennessee are becoming conversant with and facile in using
the metric system, if they are not already.
Regards,
Jim Frysinger
--
James R. Frysinger
632 Stony Point Mountain Road
Doyle, TN 38559-3030
(H) 931.657.3107
(C) 931.212.0267
