May the guy who penned the words "A pint's a pound the whole world round" was using the same dictionary as the guy who called the United States baseball league "The World Series".
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jon Saxton Sent: 28 December 2008 23:26 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:42219] Re: A pint's a pound the whole world round James: Not squinting too hard at all. The part that I object to is the "whole world 'round" phrase. I see a gross error based on a common misconception that the rest of the world is tuned to the standards, culture and mores of the USA. That the doggerel rhyme is also inaccurate in the USA is incidental. I am going to shut up now because this is not really relevant to the job at hand, namely that of getting the USA to adopt the metric system as its primary standard of measurement. It is only an illustration of an endemic cultural inertia and represents just one of the problems we face. James Frysinger wrote: > > You folks are squinting too hard. > > Again, I think that this was never meant to be more than a rule of > thumb, a bit like "pi equals 22/7". > > It's made a bit cuter by the fact that both a pint and a pound contain > 16 ounces, albeit different kinds of ounces. > > Jim > > Jon Saxton wrote: >> I never heard that rhyme until I read it on this list. I assume it >> is based on the idea that there are 16 ounces in a pound and 16 fluid >> ounces in a pint. If a fluid ounce of something weighs one ounce >> then in a sense the pint and pound are equivalent. Of course it >> depends on what you fill the pint container with. A pint of naphtha >> would be somewhat lighter than a pound, whereas a pint of mercury >> would be much heavier. >> >> So what is the substance which makes the rhyming equation true? The >> most likely candidate is water. So presumably the rhyme says 16 oz >> of water is a pint or a pound, "the whole world round". >> >> I grew up in Australia using British pints of 20 oz so it would have >> been plain wrong there and it is not surprising that the rhyme was >> not part of my culture. Only in the USA is the 16 oz pint used. >> Since 1824 the pint used in all other English-speaking countries was >> the 20 oz pint of my youth. The part that says "the whole world >> round" is simply wrong. >> >> Interestingly enough, the rhyme is wrong in the USA as well. A pint >> is simply not equivalent to a pound. The USA inherited the pint >> from the UK as it was at the end of the 18th century. The gallon of >> the time was the Queen Ann "wine gallon" of 1707 based on the volume >> of eight troy pounds of wine. Because the USA seceded from the >> British Empire in the latter part of the 18th century it did not >> adopt the 1824 uniform redefinition of the gallon as the volume >> occupied by 10 lb (avoirdupois) of distilled water (measured at 62ºF >> in air at a pressure of 30" of mercury *). The British ounce of >> water by weight and by volume were established as equivalent. The >> volume of a UK (Imperial) gallon worked out at a bit over 277 in³ or >> 4.55 L whereas the US gallon (i.e. the old wine gallon) was 231 in³ >> or 3.79 L. There are 160 fluid ounces to the Imperial gallon which, >> as mentioned above, preserves the water weight/volume relationship. >> A UK fluid ounce is about 1.74 in³ or 28.4 ml. However the USA >> divides its gallon into 128 fluid ounces which means each fl oz is >> about 1.80 in³ or 29.6 ml. So a US pint of 16 US fluid ounces of >> water weighs about 4% more than a pound. >> >> So the "whole world round" part is not true in the USA either. It is >> just wrong everywhere^. >> >> *Ref: R. D. Connor, _The Weights and Measures of England_, Science >> Museum, London, 1987. ISBN 0 11 290435 1 >> >> ^This discussion only addresses liquid measures. When we bring dry >> pints into consideration then we have a whole new set of ways for the >> rhyme to be wrong. >> >> >> >> >> James Frysinger wrote: >>> >>> I was fortunate in the 7th grade; our math teacher ignored the >>> school board and taught us algebra. However in the 8th grade, we had >>> a math teacher who started off by saying that he hated math and was >>> just waiting until a coaching job came up at the high school (grades >>> 9 to 12). The only thing I recall doing that year (apart from >>> mischief) was spending untold hours memorizing U.S. customary >>> weights and measures tables and key facts, such as the number of >>> square feet in an acre. I think the rest of the year must have been >>> spent on arithmetic, working percentage and interest problems, for >>> example. >>> >>> One of the essential facts that we learned was "a pint's a pound the >>> whole world 'round" and my parents said they had learned that in >>> school, too. My recollection is that this was given as a "rule of >>> thumb" and not an exact conversion and one easy to memorize because >>> both a pint and a pound comprised 16 ounces (albeit of different >>> natures). So it was also a reinforcement of the facts that a pint >>> contains 16 fluid ounces and a pound avoirdupois contains 16 ounces >>> avoirdupois. Yes, we learned all about Troy pounds and ounces, too. >>> I think our textbook in that 8th year had been published in 1811, >>> just before the British set fire to the White House. (I'm just >>> kidding about the publication date; the arson is fairly well >>> accepted as fact.) >>> >>> By the way, my father and his brothers had the same teacher for >>> their 7th grade math classes and she taught them algebra, too. They >>> recalled her as being old to the point of being ready for retirement >>> at the time they had her. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> Pat Naughtin wrote: >>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> I was looking for the origins of the maxim, 'A pint's a pound the >>>> whole world round' when I happened on this reference at >>>> http://makezine.com/16/diyhome_measure/#msg3308 where they say: >>>> >>>> There's a difference between a U.S. pint (16 fl oz) and an Imperial >>>> pint (20 fl oz), which means that a pint's a pound only in the USA. >>>> An Imperial gallon of water weighs ten pounds, which means, (if >>>> I've got my old pre-metrication sums right) that a fluid ounce of >>>> water weighs an ounce. Now, it seems that the U.S. gallon is also >>>> different from the U.S. gallon, which make sense. >>>> >>>> Does anyone have any 'Rules of thumb' that apply to gallons, >>>> quarts, pints, and fluid ounces in the USA. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Pat Naughtin >>>> >>>> PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, >>>> Geelong, Australia >>>> Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 >>>> >>>> Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has >>>> helped thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the >>>> modern metric system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that >>>> they now save thousands each year when buying, processing, or >>>> selling for their businesses. Pat provides services and resources >>>> for many different trades, crafts, and professions for commercial, >>>> industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and >>>> in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, >>>> Google, NASA, NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, >>>> and the USA. See http://www.metricationmatters.com >>>> <http://www.metricationmatters.com/>for more metrication >>>> information, contact Pat at [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> or to get the free >>>> '/Metrication matters/' newsletter go to: >>>> http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. >>>> >>> >> >
