Pat, That is interesting. It seems like there are some English units that will only disappear at the end of this year.
Jerry ________________________________ From: Pat Naughtin <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Cc: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:05:54 PM Subject: [USMA:42649] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? Dear Jerry, You might be interested to know that there are six Imperial measures that are still available for use in the UK. Source: http://www.nwml.gov.uk/docs/legislation/units%20of%20measurement/gnotes%20for%20public%20sector%20on%20use%20of%20metric.pdf where you will note that: ipints are only for returnable containers iimile, yard, feet, and inches are only for road signs; the roads are built using metric units such as millimetres andf metres iiifoot is legal for use in aircraft even though the global positioning systems all use metres ivthe nautical mile mentioned here is the metric nautical mile of exactly 1852 metres vthis troy ounce is the metric troy ounce defined as 31.1034768 grams viiacres are, I believe, no longer legal for land transactions in the UK Appendix 1 Imperial Units Of Measurement Available For Primary Use After 1 October 1995 Some imperial units remain available as the primary system of measurement for certain specific uses, either without time limit or no later than 31 December 1999. The units and their uses are as follows: a. Imperial units of measurement to be used without time limit. i. pint for sales of draught of beer or cider and for milk sold in returnable containers; ii. mile, yard, foot and inch for road traffic signs and for related distance and speed measurements; iii. foot in aircraft heights and other units used in the field of air and sea transport and rail traffic, which have been laid down in international conventions etc (see Article 2 of Directive 80/181); iv. nautical mile and knot for sea and air traffic; v. troy ounce for transactions in precious metals; vi.. acre for land registration b. Imperial units of measurements which may be used no later than 31 December 1999 i. pound and ounce for goods sold loose from bulk (eg fruit and vegetables not sold in pre-packs); ii. therm for gas supply; iii. fathom for marine nagivation; iv. fluid ounce and pint for sales of beer, cider, water, lemonade and fruit juice in returnable containers On 2009/01/31, at 1:48 PM, Jeremiah MacGregor wrote: Stephen, Why would it say approximate? I wonder what the metric size is and if that is more exact. I don't know much about the rules of what you get versus what you ask for but I'm sure if they gave you 400 g it would only be breaking the law if they charged you for some higher amount. I can't imagine a customer calling the police because they got 400 g instead of a pound. If fact I can't ever remember getting a pound when I asked for it. It was always plus or minus. I would be more concerned though if someone cheated me by putting their hand on the scale or sold me product that was dated. BTW, why do you spell grams with an extra me? That seems strange. Is that the way it is spelled in the UK? Jerry ________________________________ From: Stephen Humphreys <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:53:11 PM Subject: RE: [USMA:42521] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? It's all in the small print. My German monitor quotes 'approx 28"'. I havene;t measured it but it looks about right. However if a shop sold you a 'pound' which turned out to be 400 grammes then that'll be breaking the law. I'm not fully qualified in the legal bits and pieces so please forgive me for vagueness. ________________________________ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:32:29 -0800 From: [email protected] Subject: Re: [USMA:42521] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? To: [email protected]; [email protected] Stephen, How does the law prevent this from happening when others have said they have encountered it? I read emails yesterday that said monitors in inches were smaller then what was advertised as well as storage space. I only know of one pound which is described as 453.6 g or such. I know there is a 500 g pound but it is usually called by other names such as pfund and livre as was explained in an earlier email. Jerry ________________________________ From: Stephen Humphreys <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:01:20 PM Subject: [USMA:42521] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? <<I see what you are saying, but that seems strange. How can someone be familiar enough with metric units on the job but as soon as they leave the company for the day they forget metric units and have to have to have events of the day be explained in imperial units? Does this happen in any other country too? >> To a degree, Ireland. To a (much) lesser degree, Australia and New Zealand <<From some other comments I have read from some of the emails is that English units are still used as a means to present incorrect information about products to consumers. Is this the case in Britain too? Do people understand the imperial units they encounter? Why would converting to imperial units be a benefit if in fact it is used to provide erroneous information? That would not seem like a benefit to me.>> The law prevents this from happening (would you be thinking of, for example, a 400 gramme 'pound'?). ________________________________ From: Martin Vlietstra <[email protected]> To: U...S.. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 11:08:37 AM Subject: [USMA:42501] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? Jerry, As regards units of measure, Britain runs an Apartheid system – business and official matters are conducted in metric units, but the press barons have instructed their editors to convert any metric units into imperial units for the benefit of the British consumer. As a result the man-in-the-street is unfamiliar with metric units unless he comes across them in his work situation. ________________________________ From: Jeremiah MacGregor [mailto: [email protected] ] Sent: 24 January 2009 15:22 To: Martin Vlietstra; U.S. Metric Association Subject: Re: [USMA:42425] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? Martin, Why would they convert back? Isn't Britain fully metric now like Australia and others? I thought they converted in the 1960s, so by now only the real old should still remember older units.. Jerry ________________________________ From: Martin Vlietstra <[email protected]> To: [email protected] ; U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:20:38 AM Subject: RE: [USMA:42425] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? When traveling on the Continent, I have noticed that most British travelers tend to repeat the units that they have heard or seen – they tend not to convert back to Imperial units. ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] on Behalf Of Jeremiah MacGregor Sent: 24 January 2009 14:28 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:42425] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? Jason, Do immigrants speak among themselves using metric units or do they conform to American practice of using English units even in their native languages? What about the goods they sell in their native shops? Are they sold to each other in metric units or English units (lbs of kg)? Jerry ________________________________ From: Jason Darfus <[email protected]> To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:05:39 PM Subject: [USMA:42355] Re: Is there any literature on metrication in the US aimed at immigrants? On 18 Jan 2009, at 09:39, Pierre Abbat wrote: > It appears that the immigrants try to conform to what they think is the way we > do it. Is there any literature aimed at people who come here already knowing > metric, but haven't lived through the introduction of metric in the 1970s, > empowering them to push Americans to metricate? > > Pierre I think you're right in suggesting that immigrants, most of whom are inherently from metricated countries, feel it's not their place to complain about the way things are done here regarding measurement.. The thought of producing some kind of a handout to be given to immigrants in the grocery store has occurred to me. This could be produced in an attractive way, written in multiple languages, and would ask the patrons to request of store management the posting of metric pricing signs in the produce, deli, and meats departments for example. The stores would also have to be equipped with switchable scales, as all the grocery stores I visit use scales that are only capable of displaying "lbs". I've written to the stores I shop at and my request has been summarily ignored, but they probably would take notice if they received many similar requests. I've even offered to buy a new dual unit hanging scale for a local coffee roaster/store if they'd price their beans by the kilo or 100g in addition to their lbs. Again there was no response. ________________________________ Beyond Hotmail — see what else you can do with Windows Live Find out more! ________________________________ Share your photos with Windows Live Photos – Free Find out more! Cheers, Pat Naughtin PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, Geelong, Australia Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. 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