One of the other lists I'm on is a chat list of bell ringers.  Most are from
the UK but some are from the US and a couple are from Australia.

 

Change bells have been described for hundreds of years by an old imperial
measure:  hundredweights (112 lb), quarters (28 lb) and pounds.  This is
tradition and is just the way things are, and no this is not going to change
anytime soon.  For any tower, it is common to describe the bells in that
tower by the description of the largest bell, called the tenor.  In my home
tower the tenor is 32-0-4, that is, 32 hundredweights (cwt), 0 quarters
(qtr) and 4 pounds, or 3588 lbs, or 1629 kg.  I rounded off to the nearest
kg because it is quite likely that the bell is not exactly 32-0-4.0000.
(And by odd coincidence there is a small sign at the entrance to the
Cathedral stating its capacity as 3204 persons.)

 

So - I posed a question to the list a few weeks ago asking what the history
was of describing bells that way, and why it is still done, considering that
few people under 40 in the UK have been taught imperial in school -
especially not the older historical units that aren't used much anymore,
even colloquially.  Here's what people replied.  Authors are from the UK
unless otherwise specified.

 

 

The posting I first sent:

 

OK, I'm probably treading on sensitive ground here .

 

but it was inspired by discussion on the other list about sound augmentation
in towers when it's hard to hear some of the bells.  The idea was to run
sound pipes down to the ringing chamber, and all pipe dimensions were given
in meters and millimeters.

 

That said .

 

I have an idea where hundredweights, quarters and pounds came from.
Hundreds of years ago, large numbers were probably difficult for many people
to comprehend.  Our tenor, for example, is 3588 lb (or about 1630 kg).
Expressed traditionally, it's 32-0-4.  Three small numbers, easier for
anyone to understand, even though there are three different names for one
concept (weight, or mass) rather than just one name with a variable whole
number (pounds, or kilograms).  And I know tradition is important to many
(at church I prefer the Elizabethan Common Prayer language, myself, as well
as many of the good hymns that have stood the test of time).

 

So why do we continue to use the old way of measuring bells?  Is it so we
can compare bells now to bells from the past?  Is it because that's just the
way it's always been done?  Or is  there another reason?

 

This isn't to criticize - I'm actually curious.

 

Carleton

 

And the replies .

 

 

 I've put a card giving the weights of our bells in both imperial and metric
on our tower wall. I was finding that the young learners didn't have any
idea what a hundredweight was. Or inches, either:

"Move five centimetres up the tail end".

 

Dave

 

 

Do the founders [this means the bell foundries that cast the bells] measure
them that way?

 

Both towers where I have been regularly involved in ringing that have bells
cast relatively recently have cards from the founders giving details of the
bells, and they cite the weights entirely in pounds, not cwts or qtrs. And
the third tower I've been regularly involved in has 18th century bells for
which we have no such card, but the record the church does have of the
bells, from an 18th century shipping manifest, also cites the weights just
in pounds.

 

Though it still leaves open the question of why pounds and not kilograms, at
least these days.

 

(this from a US ringer)

 

 

You have to be slightly careful here.  Around that time, '00' was used as an
abbreviation for (long) hundredweight. 

So you might find a description of a bell weighing 2700 (seemingly with no
units specified) meaning 27 cwt or 3024 lbs; and the same bell might be
described elsewhere as weighing 3000 lbs, also meaning about 27 cwt.

 

If you go back significantly earlier, you have to contend with hundredweight
of sizes other than 112 lbs.  (And if the tower is in the US, I believe the
'short' 100 lb hundredweight has also in use, probably more recently; though
I don't claim to know much about that.)

 

In the 14th century, there's evidence to suggest that (in some areas, at
least) copper was customarily weighed in 112 lb hundredweight whereas tin,
the other major component of bell metal, was usually weighed using 80 lb
hundredweights. 

The Sacrists' Rolls of Ely Cathedral for 19-20 Ed III (1345-7) which
document the casting of the c.37 cwt ring of four for the cathedral provide
an example of this.

 

RAS

 

 

This sounds quite like the approach that used to allow us to buy six
pennyworth of sweets or chips. How much you actually got for your six pence
depended upon the intrinsic value of the particular sweets. Is it possible
that in the original context the "hundred" was related to a monetary unit.
so you got a hundred crowns' (or whatever) worth of copper or of tin?

 

Ted

 

 

I guess it's possible, though I'm not sure it's all that likely.  The OED
says "prob. originally [equal] to a hundred pounds, whence the name".

 

That said, the prices of copper, tin and "white copper" (which I think is
possibly cupronickle, though J.J. Raven suggests in 'Church Bells of
Cambridgeshire' that this is perhaps zinc)  in the Ely Sacrist's Rolls are
very similar, varying between 14s to 16s per cwt.  Assuming Cu and Sn really
were measured in different sized hundredweight, it would mean the variation
in the size of the hundredweight coincides with the price difference.  But
with only two data points, it's difficult to know whether this is merely a
coincidence.

 

Reading the Wikipedia article on stone (the unit weight, not lumps of rock),

 

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_(mass)

 

it seems that it was normal for different sized stone to be used for
different commodities.  We could hypothesise that perhaps a 14 lb stone was
used for Cu, and a 10 lb stone for Sn.

 

That said, the size of a pound has also varied (and still does between the
US and UK, or within the UK for gold, where troy pounds are still sometimes
used, and other things).  So even supposing we trust the accuracy of the Ely
records, and our ability to decipher the highly abbreviated mediaeval Latin
used in them, we still don't really know how heavy the

37 cwt tenor was.

 

RAS

 

 

We recently had a visit to my tower by some Italian ringers. I had to
convert the weight of our bells from cwt, qtr, lb into quintale for them.

 

Bruce

 

 

Surely we mainly use the weight of the bell to tell us whether it's heavier
or lighter than the one in the church down the road. It doesn't matter what
the unit of weight is as long as they're all measured in the same units.

Changing my tenor weight into kilogrammes won't help anyone compare the
19cwt bell round the corner with my 1000Kg bell. The actual weight isn't
terribly relevant except as a guide.

 

DMG

 

 

Indeed. 

Very brief email yesterday from a colleague - a brand new mum ...

"just announcing the arrival of Adam William S_____ born Sunday at 4:42pm
weighing 7 pounds 2"

 

Though I think it's not so much that the new mums want to compare.

They need to translate so the new grandparents have some idea.

 

oz(m)erelda

 

 

 

And finally, from the weekly Ringing World compendium of the various ringing
chat lists:

 

Why, enquired Carleton MacDonald, an American, on ringing-chat, were bells
still weighed in hundredweights, quarters and pounds in the UK?  Their
weights were quoted in pounds alone in the USA.  Richard A. Smith observed
that different commodities used to be weighed in different kinds of
hundredweight.  Carleton was also curious about the use, in Australia (which
went metric some years ago), of pounds and ounces for weighing babies.
Margaret Callinan thought it was to help the grandparents.  

 

 

In our tower, we have a large bronze plaque describing each of the ten
bells:  its number, its note, who donated it, the inscription on it, the
diameter of the mouth of the bell (in inches) and the mass of the bell (in
pounds only).  When visitors come to the tower and we give a talk, the bells
are described only in pounds; however, if ringers come over from the UK,
especially older ones, we have a chart on our website that enables them to
relate the mass of the bells to those back home.

 

http://www.cathedral.org/wrs/wrs.htm

 

(No, kg isn't included; I'm not the webmaster.  And yes, I know one column
is headed "weight".)

 

Conclusion:

 

I'm not sure where hundredweight (cwt) is used any more.  The only place
I've found is in describing church bells.  Apparently the tradition
continues because it enables comparison with bells cast 200, 300, even 400
years ago (yes there are many that are that old).  

 

I don't know of any use of the hundredweight (either one), quarter (either
one), or stone in the USA.  Note that the stone is half of a quarter.  

 

Carleton

 

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