Obviously the steps (or similar) that were taken when the dimensions were 
converted in the past.  Can't say whether they used 25.4 or some other inch 
definition from the time.

The point is that with the record dimensions what they are, it shows that they 
were converted and rounded to the nearest fractional size within acceptable 
tolerances.  They were never made to match the name they were called?

The only problem with 32-nds though is they are not found on standard 
fractional inch based rulers and thus it may be difficult to measure in 
32-nds.  I've seen some rulers that have 32-nds, but with the lines so close 
and cluttered, you have to have super human vision not to be off a mark or 
two.  

If you lived in the 1920s (or earlier) , then you would have had to use tables 
and slide rules.  Wouldn't that have been fun?

Metrication would be a lot simpler if some engineers in the US really 
understood significant figures and tolerances and would do the inverse of what 
the record industry did.  Simply convert the dimension to millimeters using the 
25.4 factor then round to the nearest whole millimeter.  Then factor in the 
original tolerances and see if the nearest whole millimeter does fall within 
those tolerances.  If it does, then make that the new number and adjust the 
metric tolerances to suit.  If not, then go to the nearest 0.5 mm and try again.

The idea is to have as few digits to the right of the decimal point as possible.

Jerry



________________________________
From: John M. Steele <[email protected]>
To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 11:01:26 AM
Subject: [USMA:44385] RE: Records


Mathematically:
1) Convert to decimal inches, by dividing by 25.4 mm/in
2) Record and subtract the integer inches to deal with only the decimal.
3) Multiply by the largest denominator I am willing to entertain (8, 16, 32, 
etc)
4) Mentally round to closest integer

If I get a result that is even, I can simplify the fraction.  If I feel the 
number is too far from an integer, I can go to the next denominator choice in 
step three by multiplying by 2 again (and I can repeat until I am satisfied, 
but I have to remember what I am doing to the denominator).

When I am satisfied with the vulgar fraction, I can check my work by computing 
decimal inches, then millimeters.  I'd hate to do it with a table of 
logarithms, but with a calculator, it is not bad.

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Jeremiah MacGregor <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Jeremiah MacGregor <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [USMA:44375] RE: Records
To: "John M. Steele" <[email protected]>, "U.S. Metric Association" 
<[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 10:52 AM


How does one accurately express a rounded millimeter value in a vulgar inch 
fraction and stick to either 8-ths, 16-ths or 32-nds?  For example, if you were 
an engineer in the 1920s and had to convert a European metric spec for American 
use, how would you do it and still retain the same original dimensions in the 
converted value? 

Jerry 



   




________________________________
From: John M. Steele <[email protected]>
To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]>; 
[email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 10:34:35 AM
Subject: Re: [USMA:44375] RE: Records


Your dimension of 302 mm is correct, more correct than the nominal 12".  
However, Steve's assertion that it is inch based is also correct, as written in 
the specification.

Since the International size is claimed to be 300 mm, and 302 mm differs from 
it by a few multiples of the tolerance, as an engineer, I have to say they were 
engineered to be different sizes, even if they are "close."  Assuming the 
International size has a similar tolerance, they will not overlap.

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, Jeremiah MacGregor <[email protected]> wrote:

From: Jeremiah MacGregor <[email protected]>
Subject: [USMA:44375] RE: Records
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 9:59 AM


John,

Thanks for verifying what I have said.  We now have proof that I am correct and 
Stephen is wrong.  But I highly doubt Stephen will change his position and 
continue to spout error.

The RIAA spec is very interesting as it butts up against an interesting problem 
in converting millimeter dimensions to fractional inches.  I would say that in 
1963 when the spec was made (possible from an older spec) that decimal inches 
were rare and not popular and it was common to express all (or most) inches in 
fractions.  So, how do you convert a rounded metric number to a fractional inch 
and then come up with a usable fractional size that is in either 16-ths or 
32-nds?  Anything smaller is not practical.  

302 mm converts to 11.89 inches.  The nearest fraction is 11.875 mm which is 
11-7/8 inches.  This however is only 301.625 mm.  The reason for the 
asymmetrical tolerances is to accommodate rounded numbers in both units, the 
302 mm in metric and the 11-7/8 in inches.  If we add the 1/32 tolerance to 
301.625 mm we get 302.42 mm.  The average of the two is the 302.02 mm you 
noted, which for all practical purposes is the 302 mm intended.   However, in 
inches there is no common fraction to equate to 302.02 mm.  So the closest 
common fraction was chosen and the tolerance was made asymmetrical.

If the RIAA spec were ever to be updated it could simply drop the 0.02 mm extra 
you noted and simply make it 302 mm +/- 0.4 mm.  Would you agree?

I do find it interesting that the RIAA wanted their records to be an extra 
millimeter in radius bigger then the standard 300 mm.  Could be they wanted to 
have extra leader space at the beginning.  

As a side note I wonder if the 1963 spec was an update to an earlie spec and 
how far back the spec really goes?  If so, and the inches were in fact not post 
1960 inches, then how would pre-1960 inches or even pre-1900 inches affect the 
outcome of the conversions?  

At least we now know that the dimensions are what is intended and that the 
reference to shrinkage is just wishful thinking.  

It just goes to show that the extremist propaganda that claims everything in 
the past started out as inch based is wrong and that there are many examples 
that actually started out as metric based and were later corrupted by the 
English world in inches and the metric history was forgotten.  It is time to 
revive the truth about products that originally were metric to begin with.  


Jerry 
  

 




________________________________


      

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