I agree with your analysis, John, except that I do not believe "metrication
will never be straightened out" (the double negative is a positive).
As you say, better late than never.  It may take several more generations
to clear the damaging clutter of conversion duality; both mm and inches.
We can be happy that some industries (automotive, CAT), and some
professions (pharmacy, nutrition) are now already almost fully SI!

Gene Mechtly

-- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:00:34 -0700 (PDT)
>From: "John M. Steele" <[email protected]>  
>Subject: [USMA:50684] Fw: Wrong interpretation  
>To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
>...
>   ----- Forwarded Message ----
>   From: John M. Steele <[email protected]>
>   To: [email protected]
>   Sent: Sun, June 19, 2011 9:23:10 PM
>   Subject: Re: [USMA:50681] Wrong interpretation
>   There were several factors.  I think I might rank
>   order them differently or assign cause and effect
>   differently, but I think we would agree on several
>   of the important factors.
>    
>   It is absolutely true there was too much focus on
>   conversion between units in education, and not on
>   learning to measure, design, and solve problems in
>   metric.  Professors who assign problems where part
>   of the data is Customary and part is metric should
>   be keel-hauled.
>    
>   However, I think the cause was the government's
>   decision that no one would be forced to metricate,
>   that it would be voluntary.  That surely creates a
>   situation in which the two co-exist side by side for
>   a long time and a lot of conversion is required to
>   make sense of data in the other system.  Conversion
>   focus is a direct consequence of "it's voluntary"
>   which is a direct consequence of spinelessness on
>   the part of government.
>    
>   A second and perhaps unintended consequence is that
>   industry separates into two camps, the metric and
>   the non-metric.  The automobile industry and the
>   aircraft industry have VERY few suppliers in common.
>   One factor is that except for rivets, and a few
>   other things where usage is "thousands per plane"
>   the aircraft industry is low volume, high price;
>   auto is the opposite.  The other bigger factor is
>   their suppliers want to work in Customary and we
>   want nothing to do with them.  We (and they) solve
>   our conversion issue by choosing our suppliers. 
>   However, this tends to create a stable situation. 
>   Each side is happy in their preferred system, has
>   developed a supply base that works with them, etc
>   (and don't talk to each other).
>    
>   In my opinion, Boeing has made a colossal error by
>   farming a Customary design around the world.  If you
>   want an international supply base, you have to work
>   in metric and cut loose any supplier who won't.  If
>   you want a US supply base, you may have a wider
>   choice if you stick to Customary, but there is a
>   metric supply base in the US and they can handle
>   large orders (they may not handle small orders as
>   well).
>    
>   While changing over, there is some conversion to
>   capture your knowledge base and develop new design
>   procedures in rounded metric.  But you have to move
>   beyond that and get on with actually using metric,
>   designing, analyzing, and building in "real" metric,
>   not converted inches.  Perhaps some of our
>   disagreements over the role of conversion are
>   failure to articulate the difference in that
>   changeover phase vs ongoing practice.
>    
>   It was later than the 70's. more like the 90's, but
>   the Feds originally had pretty good plans for
>   Federal buildings, Federal highway construction, and
>   signage.  Congress swooped in on their "voluntary"
>   platform (and probably some huge campaign
>   contributions and gutted those plans with laws that:
>   *Required Customary bricks and lighting fixtures to
>   be considered in metric buildings (to ensure
>   conversion forever)
>   *Forbade FHWA from forcing the State DOTs to build
>   metric highways
>   *Forbade Federal funds for metricating highway signs
>   or requiring States to do them.
>    
>   Congress caused ongoing conversion, and other
>   problems.  Between Congress and the conversion they
>   caused, it is unlikely we will ever get metrication
>   straightened out other than in a handful of
>   industries that agree and do it without the
>   government (and may need to fight with the
>   government to do it).
>    
>   If the government is not willing to drive it to
>   completion, it will fail at some intermediate
>   point.  I think the US, the UK, and Canada all
>   demonstrate, in varying degrees, that lack of will
>   and stalling out with the job part done.  The actual
>   percent accomplished/remaining between those nations
>   differs, but not the general principle.
>    
>   As to whole millimeters, nothing wrong with them,
>   but they are not that common in the auto industry.
>   Many nominals and tolerances are stated in
>   millimeters to one decimal place, occasionally two. 
>   Except in electronics, we don't use micrometers for
>   anything but plating thickness.  The idea that
>   engineering drawings use millimeters is pretty well
>   ingrained, to whatever resolution is required.  I
>   don't think anyone tries to use centimeters
>   exclusively, but whole centimeters are very
>   convenient for human height, clothing sizes, and a
>   few other things.  If the centimeter needs a
>   decimal, I would prefer to see millimeters used. 
>   However, I don't think centimeters are wrong or as
>   big a problems as you do.  I think anyone who
>   understands metric should understand them.
>    
>   Short answer: I blame Congress, not centimeters.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------
>
>   From: Pat Naughtin
>   <[email protected]>
>   To: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]>
>   Sent: Sun, June 19, 2011 8:13:12 PM
>   Subject: [USMA:50681] Wrong interpretation
>   Dear All,
>   I wonder if the failure of the adoption of the
>   metric system in the 1970s is widely misinterpreted
>   by citizens of the USA.
>   It seems to me that many people in the USA wrongly
>   believe things like: "The metric system did not work
>   here."; "The metric system is not right for the
>   USA."; and "The old measures are good enough for us
>   because metric conversion was a failure here."
>   I think that these are all wrong interpretations.
>   My view is that the wrong metrication processes were
>   chosen for the metrication transition in the USA. It
>   was the metrication processes that should be blamed
>   for the lack of success for the USA in the 1970s.
>   Chief among these wrong choices was twofold. In my
>   opinion, the use of centimetres and the focus on
>   metric conversion as part of the metrication
>   processes remarkably slowed metrication and pointed
>   the public perception to the wrong ideas about the
>   metric system itself listed above.
>   The metric system worked fine - and really quickly -
>   wherever better metrication processes were chosen.
>   Examples include: choice of whole numbers of
>   millimetres in the automotive industry; choice of
>   nanometres, micrometres, and millimetres and for
>   internal measurements of television and computer
>   designs; and so on.
>   Any thoughts?
>   Cheers,
>   Pat Naughtin LCAMS
>   Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see
>   http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html
>   Hear Pat speak
>   at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
>   PO Box 305 Belmont 3216,
>   Geelong, Australia
>   Phone: 61 3 5241 2008
>   Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat
>   Naughtin, has helped thousands of people and
>   hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric
>   system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that
>   they now save thousands each year when buying,
>   processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat
>   provides services and resources for many different
>   trades, crafts, and professions for commercial,
>   industrial and government metrication leaders in
>   Asia, Europe, and in the USA. Pat's clients include
>   the Australian Government, Google, NASA, NIST, and
>   the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the
>   USA. See http://www.metricationmatters.com/ to
>   subscribe.

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