Trouble is I don't think most Americans know the rest of the world uses metres/meters. At a guess I'd hazard a guess at 20% know the world is metric. The rest have no idea and couldn't care!
Mike Payne On 01/09/2011, at 20:09 , Kilopascal wrote: > Americans know that the world uses metres, but that doesn't mean Americans > know metres themselves. People not use to using feet in other aspects of > their lives will have trouble when they encounter them. They may be able to > plug numbers into a device and get a result, but they might not know if that > result is good or bad. > > The problem is exacerbated if you spent the major portion of your flying > career flying in metric airspace and having little contact with feet. > > The point is, a weak knowledge of imperial/USC and an even weaker knowledge > of English is a recipe for a catastrophe. > From: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, 2011-08-31 23:58 > To: Kilopascal > Subject: Re: [USMA:51038] Re: planes collide > > I am sure they knew that the west flew in feet, but made a mistake by either > misunderstanding the number of feet to convert into metres, or an outright > conversion mistake? This throws up another good reason to ditch feet for > height, because you get such large numbers that they had convert them into > flight levels. That of course adds another possibility of making mistakes. > > Wiki > Flight levels (FL) are used by air traffic controllers to simplify the > vertical separation of aircraft and one exists every 1000 feet relative to an > agreed pressure level. Above a transitional altitude, which varies from > country to country, the worldwide arbitrary pressure datum of 1013.25 > millibar or the equivalent setting of 29.92 inches of mercury is entered into > the altimeter and altitude is then referred to as a flight level. The > altimeter reading is converted to a flight level by removing the trailing two > zeros: for example, 29000 feet becomes FL290. When the pressure at sea level > is by chance the international standard then the flight level is also the > altitude. To avoid confusion, below the transition altitude, height is > referred to as a numeric altitude, for example 'climb flight level 250' or > 'descend 5000 feet'. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 23:16 -0400, "Kilopascal" <[email protected]> wrote: >> Interesting that the crash involved Kazakh pilots. In addition to not >> understanding English, they may also not understood feet or had the ability >> to measure in it. Kasakhstan is part of the CIS and they use metres within >> their airspace along with Russia. Even though this was not mentioned it >> shouldn't be discounted. >> >> >> >> From: [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, 2011-08-31 22:37 >> To: Kilopascal >> Subject: Re: [USMA:51038] Re: planes collide >> >> Here is a really serious midair collision that happened on the 11/12/96 in >> the vicinity the Dheli airport that cost 350 lives. >> This is the accident report: Wikipedia >> The crash was investigated by the Lahoti Commission, headed by then-Delhi >> High Court judge Ramesh Chandra Lahoti. Depositions were taken from the Air >> Traffic Controllers Guild and the two airlines. The flight data recorders >> were decoded by Kazakh Airlines and Saudia under supervision of air crash >> investigators in Moscow and Farnborough, Hampshire, England, respectively.[4] >> >> The commission determined that the accident had been the fault of the Kazakh >> Il-76 commander, who (according to FDR evidence) had descended from the >> assigned altitude of 15,000 feet (4,600 m) to 14,500 feet (4,400 m) and >> subsequently 14,000 feet (4,300 m) and even below that. The report ascribed >> the cause of this serious breach in operating procedure to the lack of >> English languageskills on the part of the Kazakh aircraft pilots; they were >> relying entirely on their radio operator for communications with the ATC who >> in turn did not have his own flight instrumentation but had to look over the >> pilots' shoulders for a reading.[10] Kazakh officials stated that the >> aircraft had descended while their pilots were fighting turbulence inside a >> bank of cumulus clouds. Also, a few seconds from impact, the Kazakh plane >> climbed slightly and the two planes collided. This was due to the fact that >> only then did the radio operator of Kazakh 1907 discover that they did not >> fly at 15000 ft. Had the Kazakh pilots not climbed slightly, it is likely >> that they would have passed under the Saudi plane. He asked the pilot to do >> so and the captain gave orders for full throttle and the plane climbed, only >> to hit the oncoming Saudi plane. The tail of the Kazakh plane clipped the >> left wing of the Saudi jet, severing both parts off their respective planes. >> The recorder of the Saudi plane revealed the pilots reciting the prayer that >> they had to, according to Islamic law, when they face death. The counsel for >> the ATC Guild denied the presence of turbulence, quoting meteorological >> reports, but did state that the collision occurred inside a cloud.[10] This >> was substantiated by the affidavit of Capt. Place, who was the commander of >> the aforementioned Lockheed C-141B Starlifter which was flying into New >> Delhi at the time of the crash.[4] The members of his crew would file >> similar affidavits.[11] The ultimate cause was held to be the failure of >> Kazakhstan Airlines Flight 1907's pilot to follow ATC instructions, whether >> due to cloud turbulence or due to communication problems. >> >> To me that looks pretty well like a conversion error from feet to metres, >> but that wouldn't do. Maybe people in metric countries would start to ask, >> why do we have to fly in medieval feet? >> >> As to Lithuania >> Most countries like Poland getting finally their freedom back were happy to >> do anything that annoyed the Russians. Add to this their firm belief that >> the sun shines out of American a....s. and it will not be easy to get the >> numbers at ICAO to switch back to sensible metres. >> >> >> On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 20:19 -0400, "Kilopascal" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> But in the Soviet era, the Lithuanians flew in metres. They may not be >>> used to feet or don't understand them and thus easily make mistakes. On >>> top of it, they have to speak English when flying. You put two difficult >>> task together; trying to communicate in a language you barely understand >>> and on top of it measurement units you have no feel for, then it is no >>> surprise a mishap like this occurred. >>> >>> I'm sure it will be blamed on pilot error. >>> >>> >>> >>> [USMA:51038] Re: planes collide >>> >>> John Frewen-Lord >>> Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:11:52 -0700 >>> >>> Thanks for that John. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: John M. Steele >>> To: U.S. Metric Association ; [email protected] >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 2:06 PM >>> Subject: Re: [USMA:51036] planes collide >>> >>> >>> Lithuania apparently flies in feet, as does France and NATO. >>> >>> http://www.vfrguide.com/visual-flight-rules/lithuania >>> >>> Another version of the article states two Mirage jets and a >>> Lithuanian >>> military jet were on joint patrol. I assume they were in formation, more >>> closely spaced than normal ATC separations and were "one big aircraft" to >>> ATC. >>> Two of the pilots failed to maintain visual separation. The Mirage was >>> damaged >>> but landed. The Lithuanian jet crashed but the pilots ejected. >>> >>> As one plane landed, I assume the damage was not extensive, but on >>> the >>> Lithuanian aircraft, was to a critical control surface, resulting in an >>> unflyable plane. >>> --- On Tue, 8/30/11, John Frewen-Lord <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: John Frewen-Lord <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [USMA:51036] planes collide >>> To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> >>> Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 6:54 AM >>> >>> >>> In view of recent discussions on aircraft altitudes, I wonder if >>> that >>> may be behind this accident today, involving both Nato and Baltic state >>> aircraft. >>> >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14715235 >>> >>> We'll probably never know, sadly. >>> >>> John F-L >> >> >> -- >> >> [email protected] >> -- >> http://www.fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders >> wherever you are >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3869 - Release Date: 08/31/11 >> > > > > -- > [email protected] > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - IMAP accessible web-mail > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3869 - Release Date: 08/31/11 >
