I don't really see any similarity with the metrication argument. It is more like arguing only one material, either metal, plastic, or wood is allowed for a child's 30 cm school ruler and the other two materials are forbidden. May I suggest you missed the "surprise" points of the article: *The US has the longest lasting low denomination bill in the world, 4.8 years (vs Canada'a one year when they retired their paper C$1. That severely impacts the economic argument. *The "savings" is a tax, via an accounting trick: "According to the GAO, seigniorage is the only reason for the U.S. to adopt a dollar coin. “The overall net benefit [of the dollar coin] was due solely to increased seigniorage and not to reduced production costs,” wrote the agency. “Seigniorage isn’t real savings, it’s just moving money from people to the government in a really, sloppy inefficient way,” said NPR correspondent David Kestenbaum in a recent report on the U.S. dollar coin. The report added that the coins are essentially “a tax on people who hold coins in jars at home.”
--- On Mon, 12/17/12, Carleton MacDonald <[email protected]> wrote: From: Carleton MacDonald <[email protected]> Subject: [USMA:52075] RE: Fw: Re: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> Date: Monday, December 17, 2012, 12:33 PM I note the argument that the coins will weigh down pockets. That only happens if you refuse to spend coins, pay with paper only, and empty your pockets at night and throw the coins into a bucket. That happens now because we have a low-value paper note, which forces people to take out wallets and pay with paper even for small purchases like a newspaper, a coffee, a hot dog at the umbrella café on the sidewalk, or a Baby Ruth bar from a vending machine. They get change, and it goes into the pocket, then into the bucket. Few people will take out exact change in both paper and coin; it’s just too much trouble. But with the dollar bill gone if you buy something that costs $2.10 you will take out coins instead, give the clerk two $1 coins and a dime, get no change – and three coins are now gone from your wallet. Go back to when you were a kid and ice cream cones were 10 cents. Everyone paid with a coin, a dime. The dollar bill is the new dime, if not the new nickel – and no one cared back then that we didn’t have a paper dime or a paper nickel. Everyone spent the coins: at the ice cream stand, at the Coke machine, for a newspaper, to drop in the fare box on the streetcar, etc. Everyone will spend the coins now. I do, whenever I’m in Canada, the UK or France. This is a long time coming. Carleton P.S. It’s interesting how many of the letter writers made the conceptual connection between dollar coins and metrication. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John M. Steele Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 06:53 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:52074] Fw: Re: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News An interesting Canadian look at the dollar coin argument. I won't spoil the surprises but there are surprises there. Their position is not what you might be expecting. http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/16/canadian-loonied-and-us-dollar-bills/ --- On Sun, 12/2/12, John M. Steele <[email protected]> wrote: From: John M. Steele <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [USMA:52034] RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News To: [email protected], [email protected] Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 9:43 AM I have no issue with the one dollar coin existing; but I do have an issue with the bill not existing. To claim it is a metrication issue that deserves USMA discussion is like saying that of material choices for a 30 cm school ruler (wood, plastic, metal), the market shouldn't decide. One should be required by law and the other two forbidden by law. I'm not buying it; it is not at all like saying only one system of measurement should be legal (which I would support). I have one good use for them, theft-proof money. I use a parking lot that accepts either bills or coin, but only gives change in dollar coins (two hours free, $1/h or fraction thereof for additional time.) I leave them in the coin tray of my car and use them as parking tokens. --- On Sun, 12/2/12, Martin Vlietstra <[email protected]> wrote: From: Martin Vlietstra <[email protected]> Subject: [USMA:52034] RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 9:32 AM One of the ways in which a switch to $1 and $2 coins will help is to dislodge the American mindset that what was good for grandpappy is god for me. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John M. Steele Sent: 02 December 2012 12:26 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:52033] RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News Obviously, both the metal and paper lobbies are lobbying that their way is best. However, the pols are telling little white lies about the money saving. Congress only considers a ten year forward budget in their planning. The Gao report DOES show savings over 30 years, but NOT over the ten year horizon that Congress cares about. http://news.coinupdate.com/gao-provides-updated-analysis-on-replacing-dollar-bills-with-dollar-coins-1224/ The GAO report considers several alternatives. The most optimistic shows losses for the first four years, the savings in years 5-10 get back to breakeven at year ten, and the net savings accrue in years 11-30, and thereafter. The other alternatives are worse. So the proposal is lets spend more money NOW when debt is absolutely killing us, and pray the analysis is right and it pays back later. Finally, there is nothing particular metric about these coins, although the Mint is EO12770-compliant and provides metric data. At the claimed 8.1 g, there are $55.99906/lb, or $123.45679/kg (yes, I am well aware that is decimal dust for 2 digit input, I'm making a point). I think it is obvious that the value is $56/lb and the metric mass has been slightly rounded, it is a 125 grain coin. The pound value is VERY close to an integer, and the kilogram value is decidedly non-integer. (By similar analysis, dimes, quarters and halves are all $20/lb, and can be weighed mixed, while pennies and nickles are $4/kg and $10/kg respectively). --- On Sat, 12/1/12, Carleton MacDonald <[email protected]> wrote: From: Carleton MacDonald <[email protected]> Subject: [USMA:52032] RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, December 1, 2012, 5:38 PM The only problem with the $2 bill is that it will still be used for small purchases, people won’t spend their coins as a result (see below for earlier comment on that), and they will still complain about the buildup of coin. I think the smallest bill should be the $5, as it is in Canada, the UK and Europe. (Or, make a $2 coin, as other countries have.) This despite the fact that I think the back of the $2 bill is very attractive (the image of the signing of the Declaration of Independence). Carleton From: Kilopascal [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 16:07 To: Carleton MacDonald; 'U.S. Metric Association' Subject: Re: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News I think it has more to do with the paper lobby then anything else. In the case of the paper union and the Crane & Company, there can be a compromise in that the government can agree to print more paper two dollar bills along with dollar coins. If you count the number of dollar bills in circulation and then compare it to the number of two dollar bills printed and one dollar coins already minted, what is the result? For Example: There are 1.2 G$ of two dollar bills unused. http://www.eaglenews.org/two-dollar-bill-myth-leaves-1-2-billion-dollars-unused-in-system-1.2632687#.ULpusO_ZXmc Add this to the 2.4 G$ in dollar coins already minted but in storage and you have 3.6 G$ already that can be put into circulation. But, the only way they will be used is if printing of the dollar bill ceases and a portion of the dollar bills already in circulation are removed. This would create enough of a shortage, forcing the use of the two dollar bill and dollar coin. It may take a few years to completely replace the one dollar bill with two dollar bills and dollar coins, but the first thing to do is get the ball rolling and put into use that which is in storage and costing the government money. If it can be shown that people quickly can adopt to the change of currency, it can be proved that people can get use to the change in measurements. From: Carleton MacDonald Sent: Saturday, 2012-12-01 15:44 To: 'Kilopascal' ; 'U.S. Metric Association' Subject: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News In many countries the government agency that makes coin and paper notes is the same. In the USA it’s the United States Mint vs. the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. Different employees, and probably different unions, each wanting to preserve its piece of the pie. Not to mention the lobbying power of the Crane & Company of Massachusetts, which makes the paper for all notes, and for which the $1 bill is a huge part of it. Carleton From: Kilopascal [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 15:06 To: Carleton MacDonald; 'U.S. Metric Association' Subject: Re: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News I hope the bill passes this time. I too use dollar coins and two dollar bills. I don't reject dollar bills if given to me in change as I take them home and save them up and return them to the bank to buy more coins and 2 dollar bills. Let's just hope the lobby that supports the coin can win against the lobby that supports paper. From: Carleton MacDonald Sent: Saturday, 2012-12-01 13:10 To: 'Kilopascal' ; 'U.S. Metric Association' Subject: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News I understand the bill in Congress to make this happen was sponsored by two Republicans. That may make it more likely to pass as the Republicans are often the obstructionists for things like this. I added a comment to the article. I use dollar coins exclusively and go out of my way to avoid getting dollar bills in change. Carleton From: Kilopascal [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 12:23 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News Well, it appears the government has re-opened the issue of the dollar coin. They seriously want to get rid of the dollar bill as a means to cut spending. Of course there are also those who hate the idea flooding the internet news reports and blogs with their usual tired old excuses. They may be scared that Obama this time will push it as he doesn't have to worry about an election. Since they already have minted about 2.4 milliard, these could be first to be pumped into circulation simply by ceasing printing and withdrawing a significant amount of the dilapidated bills, creating a bill shortage that can only be taken up by the coin. Since there are supporters with money who won't let this issue die, I can see that eventually, the coin will win out. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ax-dollar-bills-save-money-congress-article-1.1211013 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2634/5929 - Release Date: 11/30/12 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2793 / Virus Database: 2634/5929 - Release Date: 11/30/12
