I think Brian makes very good points here and I lean in Brian's direction
in these matters. Keep the goal in mind and don't get lost in the details.
----- Message from [email protected] ---------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 15:42:11 -0700
From: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: [USMA:54141] RE: Don't be a dunce!
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
This is about not losing site of the end goal. I'm all for standards.
I want the United States to use the metric system. Simple as that.
Whether it's a metre or meter. Whether it's kil-oh-meter or
kilO-meter. IT DOES NOT MATTER. The key is, that people are
measuring in meters and km....in kg and g and mg......in cm and
mm.......in liters and mL. How we pronounce is a function of
accent...American vs French vs British vs Japanese vs Russian. It does
NOT matter. It's the meter through and through. It's the gram through
and through. etc.
Do I think the AP should allow kph? Absolutely not. Do I think
people who say kil-ah-meter need to be corrected? Absolutely not.
Should people who spell meter be corrected to metre? No more so than
theatre, programme, colour, civilisation, etc. These are all accepted
changes to American English. Theater, program, color, civilization.
Again what is our goal? Our goal here isn't to change American
English
language. Our goal is what? What is it again? The USE of the metric
system in the United States.
Being a stickler on pronunciation and meter vs metre just alienate
possible supporters of our cause.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [USMA:54136] RE: Don't be a dunce!
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, July 14, 2014 2:08 pm
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Some might be tempted to accuse detail sticklers (like Mark) of
straining at gnats and swallowing camels. Others might prefer to accuse
people with a more relaxed approach (like Brian) of embracing a chaotic
disregard for uniformity. I am happy that we have sticklers for detail
AND people who are a little toward the other end of that spectrum in
our colorful world. It is a hard job to strike a balance. I hope the
sticklers for detail continue to try and keep us on track. I also hope
when we as individuals try to teach and convince other Americans to
adopt SI that we not push too many details if that would kill the
moment, but we should indeed mention those details if we are talking
with a person who would appreciate those details. It is all a matter of
accurately judging the personality of the person we are trying to
convince. So who is right and who is wrong? Mark or Brian? In any given
conversation, it is just as important what you say as what you refrain
from saying. There is no right and wrong. There is only kind and
hurtful behavior. Two people having a conversation is way different
than this group email, so no matter what anybody says, somebody is
bound to feel rubbed the wrong way.
----- Message from [email protected] ---------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 10:42:16 -0700
From: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: [USMA:54132] RE: Don't be a dunce!
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
There is no incorrect pronunciation. Come on people. Seriously.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [USMA:54131] RE: Don't be a dunce!
From: Mark Henschel <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, July 14, 2014 10:40 am
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Cc: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Be careful using Wikipedia as a source. Wikipedia also
recommends the incorrect pronunciation of kilometer.
Mark
On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:25 AM, <[email protected]>
wrote:
The beauty of the International System of units or SI after its
French initials is that one has the option to dispense with ever
having to use any word for any number higher than thousand on the
scale, which thankfully has only one definition everywhere on Earth.
See snippet in context here:
http://metricpioneer.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/long-scale-and-short-scale-how-much-is-a-billion-it-depends-where-you-live/
----- Message from "John M. Steele" <[email protected]>
---------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 06:55:17 -0700
From: "John M. Steele" <[email protected]>
Reply-To: "John M. Steele" <[email protected]>
Subject: [USMA:54128] RE: Don't be a dunce!
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
On groupings, I see Wikipedia specifies the comma as a thousands
separator but allows the space in scientific/engineering articles.
Nowhere do they require the space as a thousands separator with SI
units. In my opinion, the comma should NOT be used as a thousands
separator with SI units.
I further notice down in the SI section they allow
the word micron as a name for 10^-6 m, although they do require the
correct symbol.
-------------------------
FROM: Martin Vlietstra <[email protected]>
TO: U.S. Metric Association <[email protected]>
SENT: Monday, July 14, 2014 8:33 AM
SUBJECT: [USMA:54126] RE: Don't be a dunce!
The Wikipedia standards can be seen at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mosnum. Leading zeros
are
required except for gun calibres and [baseball] averages.
FROM: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] ON BEHALF OF Michael Payne
SENT: 14 July 2014 06:19
TO: U.S. Metric Association
CC: USMA
SUBJECT: [USMA:54122] RE: Don't be a dunce!
I’m not saying you should change formats in
your job, but it would be good if an organization like Wikipedia
which is read worldwide, could adhere to what is an internationally
recommended standard instead of the de-facto US format for numbers.
If this were done companies like your may adapt to this standard in
the future.
Mike Payne
On 14 Jul 2014, at 07:03, [email protected] wrote:
I would be fired
from my job if I were to insist that we change commas to spaces.
Get a real-world perspective once in a while. I would LOVE to live
in a clean, tidy world with uniformity in such matters. I think we
would do well to pick our battles carefully. This battle is akin to
Harold insisting that Americans spell metre instead of meter.
----- Message from Michael Payne <[email protected]> ---------
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 06:45:05 +0200
From: Michael Payne <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: [USMA:54120] RE: Don't be a dunce!
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
I can only speak about the English language Wikipedia. Many
English speaking nations use the comma as the decimal, South
Africa is one, So do the French and probably most Europeans. It’s
a cleaner way of writing and it works for the digits on the right
side of the decimal.
Claiming
Americans like their freedom is the same as saying we’ll stick
with American Customary because we’re free to. It does not help
in
international trade! We need standardisation and this is one
standard recommended by NIST.
Mike Payne
On 14 Jul 2014, at 06:34, Harold_Potsdamer
<[email protected]> wrote:
Try checking an authoritative source, like the
BIPM before insisting Americans has some sort of derogation based
on their claimed exceptionalism.
Here is a style guide from the US construction industry:
https://www.wbdg.org/ccb/VA/VAMETRIC/guide.pdf
Rules for Writing Numbers
-
Always use decimals, not fractions (write 0.75 g, not ¾g)..
-
Use
a zero before the decimal marker for values less than one (write
0.45
g,
not .45 g).
-
Use
spaces instead of commas to separate blocks of three digits for any
number over four digits (write 45 138 kg or 0.004 46 kg or 4371
kg). Note
that this does not apply to the expression of amounts of money.
-
In
the United States, the decimal marker is a period; in other
countries a comma usually is used
See
also 5.3.4 from the NIST guide:
http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP330/sp330.pdf
Under what authority do you operate under that gives you the right
to break the rules? Those who want to do things their way and
think they are exceptional are the real dunces.
FROM: [email protected]
SENT: Sunday, 2014-07-13 22:51
TO: U.S. Metric Association[1]
SUBJECT: [USMA:54114] RE: Don't be a dunce!
Harold. Americans use commas or spaces. We love our freedom.
----- Message from Harold_Potsdamer <[email protected]>
---------
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:07:41 -0400
From: Harold_Potsdamer <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: [USMA:54113] RE: Don't be a dunce!
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Not only that, commas dividing thousands which should be spaces.
FROM:
[email protected]
SENT: Sunday, 2014-07-13 14:26
TO: U.S. Metric Association[1]
SUBJECT: [USMA:54111] RE: Don't be a dunce!
No zeroes on the
leading decimals? Tsk tsk tsk. :)
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [USMA:54110] Don't be a dunce!
From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, July 13, 2014 11:22 am
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Posted on Facebook and Twitter today:
Don't be a dunce! http://MetricPioneer.com/Metrication-America[2]
David Pearl www.MetricPioneer.com[3] 503-428-4917
----- End message from Harold_Potsdamer <[email protected]>
-----
David Pearl www.MetricPioneer.com[3] 503-428-4917
----- End message from Michael Payne <[email protected]> -----
David Pearl
www.MetricPioneer.com[3] 503-428-4917
----- End message from "John M. Steele" <[email protected]>
-----
David Pearl www.MetricPioneer.com[4] 503-428-4917
----- End message from [email protected] -----
David Pearl www.MetricPioneer.com[4] 503-428-4917
----- End message from [email protected] -----
Links:
------
[1] mailto:[email protected]
[2] http://metricpioneer.com/Metrication-America
[3] http://www.metricpioneer.com/
[4] http://www.MetricPioneer.com
David Pearl www.MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917
